Rishi Srivastava (00:41)
Today our guest is Cathy Wendt. Cathy, welcome.

Catherine Wendt (00:45)
Thank you. Good to be here

Rishi Srivastava (00:47)
Topic of the show today is ERP migrations in construction. First section, Kathy, is the evolution of construction ERPs. You've been supporting construction companies on accounting systems for nearly 30 years. What changes have you seen in how contractors choose their ERP systems?

Catherine Wendt (01:09)
Well, I think some of the the changes are just what's available. When you know, when we started this journey over thirty years ago, many contractors were just getting computers in their offices and they were just realizing what they could actually do for them. And there really was limited software because it really hadn't caught up with the fact that these businesses and users could now have a PC and actually use it. So many of them at least knew they could get payrol checks out,

They were starting to learn Excel, things like that. So their expectations on an ERP, they really weren't thinking about it that way. They were thinking about what software can I use to get my accounting done and stop with all my little cards and taking out the circle E to figure out the taxes, things like that. And then what equipment do I need to run on it? Because that was the other problem. We'd show up to put an ERP, and the server really wasn't designed to accept that software. So those were some of the things.

Nowadays, those expectations they're all out the window. Now people know exactly what an accounting system, a project management system can and should be doing for them. They know that they've got choices about what equipment or whether they have it in the cloud. So I think nowadays it's a question of user ability, use the user interface specifically. It's about really understanding.

what it will do for the PMs, are things integrated, are they accessible? that's very different than way back in the day when they really just didn't have a good vision of what these ERPs could actually do for them.

Rishi Srivastava (02:36)
Yeah, 30 years is a pretty long time. You've seen probably some big changes.

Catherine Wendt (02:42)
Yes,

absolutely.

Rishi Srivastava (02:44)
Many contractors stay on the same ERP for 10 to 20 years. Why is it so difficult for construction companies to change accounting systems?

Catherine Wendt (02:53)
Well, first of all I would say construction companies probably don't need to change very often as long as they started with a good solution in the first place. really construction accounting is very specific. accounting project management is very specific. If you've got a good ERP that's doing that and that company is doing a good job with updates and upgrades, staying current.

Offering new integrations and solutions, you might be with it the same ERP for a lot of years. The difficulty of changing ERPs is a couple different levels. Financial history, okay, but for the construction company it's job history. I'm in the middle of a job, I go to a new ERP, I've got to have startup records of my costs and my billing and where I am on that job.

if I want to look at a similar job that I want to bid that I did two years ago and that's on my old ERP, how am I gonna get that? So there are some complexities to a construction company specifically changing ERPs even after so many years. And with some careful planning, many of that can be mitigated, but that would be why it's not something you just wake up and decide you're gonna do it.

Rishi Srivastava (04:03)
Yeah, the older ERPs, they tend to be very clunky. Hard to navigate, desktop based, know, it seems like construction is still quite far behind

Catherine Wendt (04:09)
They take young be

But even some of the old ones are dedicated to doing those updates and keeping things as current as they can. Others are just not designed to be able to do that and it's more difficult to keep them up to date and those are not going to feel like the modern ERPs, no matter what they do.

Rishi Srivastava (04:28)
What are the biggest warning signs that a contractor has outgrown their current ERP?

Catherine Wendt (04:35)
This is an interesting topic. the the answer to the question is if they are doing different things in different systems that don't talk to each other. If they're keeping their billing for their schedule 702, 703s in Excel, and they've got another program where they're keeping their change orders or they're doing that in Word and trying to keep track of it or something, and then they've got another program that's doing their job costing for them.

And then they go move all of that into the ERP that they're doing. All right, nothing, none of this talks. It's never current. if you're re-entering it somewhere, there could be errors, there'll certainly be delays. you've outgrown the software now. The other thing I would say to that is, have you? Do you know if the software you're using already has some of those things? I can't tell you how many times someone comes to me and says, I think I'm gonna have to look at making a change. Our software doesn't do X. And I said, Well, actually.

Rishi Srivastava (05:10)
Mm-hmm.

Catherine Wendt (05:28)
It does, and you I you even have that module. Would you like me to show you how that works? So there's that. And then the other thing is many people think when they get to a certain dollar amount they have to change ERPs. And I would argue that we've got some contractors in specific verticals, I'll just say electrical for the moment, who came and said, I think I might have outgrown my ERP. we've hit X dollars in annual revenue. Well I happen to know of another dozen electric

Rishi Srivastava (05:32)
Mm-hmm

Catherine Wendt (05:55)
contractors that are double or triple that doing very well on the very same ERP. But I also know they've done a lot of work of using it well and using as much of it as they can and they've chosen integrate systems. So the ERP outgrowth that is possible. If you're in desperate desparate systems, yes, you do need to look at something that would be all inclusive. But a dollar amount is not necessarily an indicator that you've outgrown.

Rishi Srivastava (06:07)
Hey.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. mean, lot of times people don't have good training.

Catherine Wendt (06:27)
That's a that's a big one. That is a big one. often we'll find that it's they lost a couple of people along the way. No one really knew how to do something, they gave it up their best shot. The workflow that they're doing is outside the way it's designed. So yeah, they're frustrated and they think it's limited. And again, it's one of those conversations where we get to say, Would you like me to show you how it's intended to work? And I think you'll find it a lot easier and it will do a better job for you. So training is a big one. That's a great point, Rishi.

Rishi Srivastava (06:57)
Yeah, thank you. Actually, personally, I do not like to get trained myself. Software training is so boring.

Catherine Wendt (07:03)
I can understand that. I can understand.

Rishi Srivastava (07:06)
You've helped companies migrate from systems like QuickBooks desktop to Sage 100 contractor. What usually triggers that decision?

Catherine Wendt (07:16)
usually for that kind of a thing, it is these I'm in so many systems, nothing talks to each other, I'm double entering, I'm triple entering information. I can't run a job cost report on demand. I've got to wait for someone to compile it from these different places. I can't run a financial that I trust and give to my bank. you know, QuickBooks is is a single entry accounting system, so things can be deleted, there's not as much integrity in the financial.

Structure where Sage 100 – contractor, there's a dual entry, so there's an audit trail, things don't just disappear, there's an audit trail for what happened. So accountability to banks or bonding companies or other lending institutions that they might be doing, or even if they're doing a lot of going out for bid and pre-qualification things, they've got to provide some of this information. So that's often difficult in the QuickBooks environment. The other thing of moving here is

A specific construction specific accounting project management software is going to be designed well to handle cost codes and job cost postings so that you can see your direct expenses versus your overhead expenses at the job level. QuickBooks doesn't intuitively have those things. Sage one hundred contractor is designed specifically for all of that to flow.

Rishi Srivastava (08:30)
Yeah. So what is the difference between a single entry and a double entry accounting system?

Catherine Wendt (08:36)
Well, a single entry like QuickBooks, if I put an entry in, I can simply delete it. If in a dual entry accounting program, if I put an entry in, I can void it, but it's still there. I can reverse it, which gives me the history of the change that I made. But it it doesn't just go away. I can't just make it go away. So there's a little bit more integrity in the audit of what went into the books.

how it was coded, what was done with it.

Rishi Srivastava (09:07)
Next section, Cathy, is on deciding to migrate. What happens before an ERP change? When companies begin evaluating a new ERP, what mistakes do leadership teams most commonly make early in the process?

Catherine Wendt (09:22)
Maybe what the some of the common mistakes are they go hands off and they say, You just do the research and then come on back and tell me what you found. That that's not giving any leadership or direction to your people. And in those cases, we often find out they went on a golf outing and they talked to XYZ who really talked up a particular ERP. Meanwhile, their team is back researching, getting all this stuff together, and turns out that person

made you let unilateral decision without any input from anyone. It's very much a morale drain to do that. On the other side, we've got leadership team that they decide they're going to drive it all and they don't solicit any input from the team people who need the reports, who do the work, that do the entries, that are out in the field and know what the problems are that need to be solved. So it's kind of a you gotta have both. I would say that's some of the biggest mistakes that from a leadership perspective.

the the other one is you've got to have your people's back. Once a decision is made and everyone's their say, someone decides, this is not, you know, let's cast votes kind of a thing. But someone decides, then whoever the champion is whoever you're putting in front, leadership has to have their back. There will be resistance, change can be difficult, even good change can be frustrating. They've got to have their their key people's back.

Rishi Srivastava (10:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, change is tough.

Catherine Wendt (10:47)
Yes.

Rishi Srivastava (10:47)
for contractors still running on QuickBooks desktop. When does it make sense to move to a construction specific ERP?

Catherine Wendt (10:55)
Well, if you are running a construction company, I it would be my position, you should be on a construction specific ERP. To run your jobs well, to know where you are, to have on-demand reporting. how is my work in progress? What are my costs to complete? Can I get the job done with the remaining balance that I have from my budget? can I get up-to-date job cost reports, fully burdened costs down to my job so I know what I'm actually paying?

and what's actually costing me to do this work, those are those are critical if you want to stay in business. And I would argue that even a smaller contractor should be looking at construction specific ERP. Leave yourself some room to grow, great, but there are some great solutions to take a look at.

Rishi Srivastava (11:39)
Actually one speaker was telling me in good times not having good system probably doesn't matter but when the times are tough you want to have a good system with you.

Catherine Wendt (11:50)
yes, it if things are good, you can get lulled into not watching the front door. You know what I mean? You you just things are good, you you feel like it'll stay that way. And let's let's face it, construction is cyclical. Pick a decade. You will see the ups and the downs. Count on it. Some of our best contractors that we've known for literally decades, what we see when there's a downturn in the economy or a downturn in construction, that's when they're tooling.

They're gonna make these software changes, they're gonna work on their shop, they're gonna invest waiting for that cycle to pick up again, because it always does, you you don't know when, but they actually have money in the kitty to do those projects at those moments in time so that they are ramped up and ready to go when it goes back up.

Rishi Srivastava (12:35)
the timing. I love the way you explained that.

Catherine Wendt (12:39)
thank you.

Rishi Srivastava (12:39)
You work with both general contractors and specialty contractors. Are their ERP needs different or do they tend to face similar challenges?

Catherine Wendt (12:50)
So I would say there are a few differences, but I would say they face very similar challenges. How they use the ERP is a little bit different. So if I'm a GC, I'm probably gonna have a lot more cost codes. I'm going to probably more heavily use subcontracts. I may or may not use purchase orders, I depending on whether they're gonna self-perform anything or not. they're going to be having different needs about tracking lien, lien waivers and

all of the things that their subs are going need to give them. They've got accountability to an owner. They might be more involved with the architect. So it's still construction though. You still have cost codes, you still have a job, you still have a contract, you're still hiring people, you still have a payroll to get out the door, you still have direct expenses, indirect and overhead. Those those are true either way. In a specialty subcontractor, I probably have fewer cost codes. I I'm not running, you know, 50 trades on a job site. It it's my trade.

And I may do a variety of things, but I'm gonna have a s a smaller list of cost codes. I'm probably going to be heavier on my own payroll because I probably hire the very people who are out there building the wall. So those needs are also construction specific, cost codes, fully burdened, a prevailing wage, certified reports, things like that. But they're a little bit different looking than what the GC is going to be focused on.

Rishi Srivastava (14:09)
In my experience, the compliance documents requirement for GC is significantly higher compared to a sub

Catherine Wendt (14:19)
Yes, but what's happening is some of that's being pushed down to the subs through other software programs. So many subs now need to get on websites to upload and take care of and manage all the compliance that the G C used to do. They're they're still responsible for it, but the subs are now doing a lot of that work on behalf of the GC at those sites in order to get paid.

Rishi Srivastava (14:40)
The next section is the implementation journey. How long should construction companies realistically expect an ERP migration to take, depending on the systems involved?

Catherine Wendt (14:52)
it will depend on on what solution you choose. we have seen an implementation in a very difficult situation be turned around in six or seven weeks. That is a nightmare for everyone. the change itself is difficult to do in that period of time. Getting the data, people having time to go get the training, cleaning up vendors' jobs, clients.

employee lists and things like that just to get it into the new system. That's super aggressive, that's emergency situation. With some of the solutions, you know eight weeks maybe maybe 10 would be the norm. For some other solutions, we're talking several months, six or more. Those often are more flexible solutions who require a great deal of configuration. So there's a lot of discovery because with so many options

and so much flexibility, there are more configuration choices and that takes a little bit longer to do. So it does depend on the software itself, but it also depends on your team. If it is your busy season, how on earth can your people be on the discovery calls doing the testing, cleaning up the data and learning what they need to so that when you go live, they're ready to go. You you do need to consider that side as well.

Rishi Srivastava (16:04)
Actually last week during our national CFMA I met my friend controller in a GC and they had a failed Sage 100 to acumatica migration it took like a year and they had to go back to sage 100 yeah these migrations are you know it did not just a system problem they also are people problem

Catherine Wendt (16:17)
Mm-hmm.

Really? It's terrible.

Yes, there there's lots of reasons. you know, obviously people can s successfully do this, but it's it's the commitment of the leadership, it's who your partner is, it's helping you with it, it's your own people and their cooperation and whether they bought into this, and it's about leadership having the back of their people and recognizing this is extra work, this is hard to do, this is a change. Many people feel well, am I gonna lose my job? No, I mean

You're you're turning my world upside down. I am the expert on this software. Now you're making me learn another one. I won't be the expert anymore. This these are all personal things that someone's not gonna go, I wonder if maybe I'm feeling possessive. No, they're just gonna react because that's what's happening around them. So all of those things can combined can play havoc with an implementation. Yes.

Rishi Srivastava (17:17)
Yeah actually when you move through the new software suddenly the expert of the old software is novice in this new software

Catherine Wendt (17:25)
When d no no one needs me anymore, right? No one needs me anymore. I'm I've been the knowledge go to person all this time and now I don't know how to do my job, let alone help you do yours. It's it's it's tough. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (17:28)
Yeah.

Data migration is often a major concern. What are the biggest issues you see when companies try to move vendor job and financial data into a new system?

Catherine Wendt (17:52)
The biggest issue is the quality of the data in the old system. And if it is someone who has been on the other software for quite a few years, it's even more likely that they've got old records and things that need to be cleaned up. Sometimes it's maybe not a long time ago, but what they initially put in was poor, or they were working in two different systems and

The vendor screens in their current software don't have the contact info or don't have phone numbers or don't have email addresses because they rely on their Outlook to do the contacts things. So do you take the time to combine all that so we can upload it the vendors into the new data set? Do you update the old one with the info that's in Outlook so you have it in one place? And of course, exporting it to Excel, you want to clean it up.

Sometimes it's errors, sometimes it's just missing information. So that would be the that's the biggest hurdle. And I just mentioned vendors. You take that now to clients, and then looking at your job list. that's probably not as bad because jobs tend to open and close sometimes months for some types of work. It could be a year or more that you're on that job site, depending on what it is you're doing. but it definitely the quality of the data in the existing system or

if that's quality, if it's even in there.

Rishi Srivastava (19:11)
Yeah, I think what I've seen is a lot of times the same vendor has like three different entries in the old ERP.

Catherine Wendt (19:20)
well, and I'll maybe speak to that a minute too. The old ERP, you may have set that up that way intentionally, because of a limit over there, or an old rule about how taxes are recorded, or something like that. So now the question is in the new system, is there more flexibility and I really only need the one? Or are those reasons still valid and we do need all three in the new system? So those those are other considerations as you're looking at that data before you bring it over.

Rishi Srivastava (19:29)
Mmm.

Hmm.

One topic that always comes up in construction accounting is cost codes. Why do cost code structures become such a big discussion during ERP implementations?

Catherine Wendt (19:53)
Mm.

Well,

big picture. The estimators want a couple hundred cost codes because they want everything thought through and they want it all the way down to the detail. Project managers, they'd like, you know, maybe a couple dozen or so, or or maybe a little bit more if it's GC, because they gotta manage their budgets and they don't really need all the ones that the estimator wanted. And then the office, you talk to your AP person, she's like

I don't know what any this stuff is. Just give me two or three cost codes and I'll get my entries made. I've got a hundred cost codes here. How am I supposed to code this? How am I supposed to get this entered? So there's many ways to mitigate this. One is to top the estimator down a little bit because for estimating purposes, yes, you need to have thought through all of these. But a budget to run a job by cost code is gonna be somewhere in the middle. And for the AP person, first of all, this is an opportunity to little

Rishi Srivastava (20:29)
You

you

Catherine Wendt (20:56)
Learn a little bit more about the company that employs you. Maybe take an interest in what some of these things are. Maybe ask questions in the break room or talk to one of the PMs. The real answer is in the software, you can have purchase orders and subcontracts set up with defaults for these cost codes. The PM could have set it up that way in the first place, and then it would flow through if you're following the workflow in the ERP. It will help you know what to do.

Rishi Srivastava (21:05)
Mm-hmm.

Catherine Wendt (21:23)
So some of it is the different roles want or need different cost codes, and some of it is having a workflow and using the way the ERPs are designed so that you get the consistent entries on the other end for payroll, for vendor invoices, materials purchased, and such that will flow back up to the PMs so they can run their job.

Rishi Srivastava (21:45)
Different people want different cost codes in the system.

Catherine Wendt (21:48)
Yes. And and this

is always an exciting part of the conversation when we're doing an implementation. I can't tell you how many times. It it takes more iterations than finalizing a chart of accounts. It's amazing.

Rishi Srivastava (21:52)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Who do you think usually wins in these conversations? AP? PM? Estimators?

Catherine Wendt (22:06)
usually when we're having the conversations early in the implementation process, we're not really interested in the AP people, sorry, I don't need any offense on that. We're we're gonna help you know what you need to have when that time comes. Usually what we're talking about is when you do your estimate, what could you give us at the end that would allow the PM to manage the job well and what level of detail do we need that makes sense?

And can we get that from the field? Because that's another one. So if I'm on the on building the wall, I'm gonna tell you my name, because I want the check right. I'm gonna tell you how many hours I worked, and I might tell you what job I'm on, but I'm not choosing your different cost codes and I spent an hour on this and half an hour on that and three hours on this, and then I drove the truck for half an hour. No, I'm gonna tell you pay me for eight hours. So what can we get from the field and what cooperation can we get? That drives some of it too.

Rishi Srivastava (22:41)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Catherine Wendt (22:59)
So somewhere in the middle there, bringing the PMs in who know their field guys and what can and can't be done, bringing the estimators in, just where the job starts before we're awarded it, and having the conversation together and showing them those outcomes when they start talking about what they want. And then educate them, all right, so when your AP girl gets this or guy, what would you want them to choose? And how are we going to get them that info? So just showing them that there's a domino even after they're done.

So that they're considering it.

Rishi Srivastava (23:31)
That's a great point. We do AP automation and one specific feature we got requested was constrain the GLs that the field sees. The field doesn't need to see like all 100 GLs. They need to only see like five GLs that is important to them when they're

Catherine Wendt (23:46)
Right. And when it comes to

time, so if you can limit the cost codes that the field would have to choose from or would see, one of the common things is when they bring in their job, it don't it shows you the cost codes that are available for that job. Another thing that subscribers do is they say, I only want my field people to be able to have this one cost code, we'll take it from there. So that that's a little bit more extreme, but at least limiting it to what are the cost codes on this job.

Rishi Srivastava (23:59)
Mm-hmm.

Catherine Wendt (24:14)
And then you can sometimes have more in case they're doing a change order and it's not on there yet, but maybe highlight them in green or something. So there's different ways the software can help us limit what our people have to look through.

Rishi Srivastava (24:26)
Definitely. When construction companies move from Sage 100 contractor to systems like Acumatica what operational changes do they typically need to prepare for?

Catherine Wendt (24:38)
Well, first of all, during the implementation process, they really should be getting into these screens, looking at the as the site, as the field, getting familiar with what looks different and moving around different. It is definitely a different structure. there are also some great opportunities to make things your favorite and such, just like there are in the in Sage One 100 Contractor. But at Acumatica it's

It's quite robust. So choosing what do I actually need to see and how can I quickly get there. And that's often done during the training part. Going to a browser, how do I manage my open tabs as opposed to my open windows in my software? Those are a couple of things that are different. I think one of the biggest changes is not necessarily the software so much as again at the people level. There's a little bit more knowledge needed.

To use something like Acumatica construction from accounting perspective, a little higher knowledge and background than one 100 contractor, which is really designed excellently for bookkeepers, but they don't really have to be thinking about debits and credits. The screens are set up that they can do their job well and it'll go to the right place. The Acumatica, there's a different bed of knowledge needed to be successful. The other thing that's super different is something like Acumatica,

they can have more users in there without feeling like they're buying licenses that are barely used. So now the PMs get to see the data live in the same platform. That's different too because they're often used to Power B I or spreadsheets or other tools to get at this stuff. So that's a big change for them.

Rishi Srivastava (26:18)
Yeah.

The last section here is the human side of ERP change, the part most people underestimate. You mentioned that change management inside the companies often harder than the technology itself. What does that human side of an ERP implementation usually look like?

Catherine Wendt (26:35)
so usually the human side is back to well we selected this the software in the first place and we made the decision to make a change. Inviting people for their input, we not everyone's opinion has carries the same white weight, but if they have concerns, planning ahead way early in there, what are the pain points? What are the things that we would hope to solve, or what are the cool things we've seen other people do that we want to be able to do ourselves?

What are our competitors doing? What are our peers in our associations doing? Getting all that info. If people feel a little at and they feel like someone is asking them

Rishi Srivastava (27:15)
you

Catherine Wendt (27:15)
Well, what's going well in your job? What do you want to make sure that no matter what, we don't lose this functionality? And what are two or three things that would make your job better or easier? So some input on that. And then once you've made the choice, telling everybody. Not just they wake up one day and some implementation person shows up in the office that day, like, celebrate it. We've made our decision. We're very excited to do this. Here's where it's going to start. Here are the people that we're going to work with.

Let's celebrate this. So now you're starting off with something positive. We're all in this. Then as you get into it, several people are gonna be super excited about this. But even those excited people, once things get a little hard and a little complicated and they're feeling a little overwhelmed, will naturally fall down and wonder, why did we decide to do this? I can't believe I did that. So know that's coming. And whoever the champion is and whoever the leaders are, those people really need.

To watch for the signs that that's starting to happen to get in there. How can I help you? Can I get you an intern for the next few weeks to get some of this paperwork out of the way so you can stay focused on this project? can I help you in some other way being there? And then the other human side of this is whoever your champion is, often not the leadership, it's often one or two key people, have their back, but also leadership, look for opportunities.

To encourage those champions. If it's a lady, send her flowers on a Monday. She can look at them all week, she'll know you thought of her and it's appreciated. If it's a guy, hand him a bottle of bourbon or whatever his favorite thing is on a Friday as he's heading out for the weekend and say, get some rest, you did a great job this week, looking forward to Monday. Help those people because what they're doing with the frontline people is difficult and they're managing people's emotional reactions, and those people might not even know that it's an emotional reaction.

And once the emotions click in, it doesn't matter that you give them the logic about why this is good and they should do it. Once they feel that way, you you have to hear them out. And those are skills that not everybody who's good at implementing or running an office intuitively do well. You have to be super intentional.

Rishi Srivastava (29:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, these are not normal skills.

Catherine Wendt (29:32)
No,

no, and this is hard stuff. And that's why you do want a partner who has done this before, who knows that these are the things that happen and has some of those people skills. You want them to be technically qualified, but you need people who can help manage the human side of making a big change. You are ripping out a core thing. I'll go back to what I said earlier. You've got experts here. This is their fiefdom. This is their world. This is how they get meaning of why.

They come to work every day and you're about to rip it all away.

Rishi Srivastava (30:04)
You have done these migrations many many times, right? So you are one of those experts who can help the companies in this transition.

Catherine Wendt (30:07)
Yes.

Yes, I mean that is that is the kind of thing that that we absolutely do. And people are people everywhere. So this everything I'm sharing, this isn't something we just came across. This is any kind of change. If you are involved in a local community, a local church, a local BFW hall, what it whatever it is, it's the same kind of thing. People want to be recognized for their contributions and they want to be heard when they're frustrated.

Rishi Srivastava (30:40)
Well said. Have you seen cases where internal resistance almost derailed an ERP migration? What happened and how did the company recover?

Catherine Wendt (30:51)
we've definitely seen this many, many times over the years.

I'm I'm drawing a blank on a specific example, but this this happens pretty regularly. People really begin to understand the change is coming. They didn't want it at all. They've not done the homework. They haven't prepped the data that they were supposed to have ready. Just a lot of resistance. Backbiting, talking, gossipy stuff. Can you believe this? Can you believe that? it's gotta be called out for what it is in a respectful manner and direct and kindly.

And a champion needs to be willing to do that with the backing of leadership. And it's not unusual that somebody does not make it through the implementation to the go live. they may choose to opt out because they just don't want to deal with it and they don't want to do this. they may need to be asked, Do do you want to do this with us or would you like to go look for something else?

Rishi Srivastava (31:42)
Yeah, yeah. People sometimes do not cooperate.

Catherine Wendt (31:46)
N no, and if if you want a successful implementation that you've put all this money into and there isn't a solid reason that you should pause this, it's that's not what's happening, you do need to decide for the betterment of the whole team and the morale of everyone else that is working hard on it and is excited about doing it, someone might not make it to the end.

Rishi Srivastava (32:06)
Many construction companies are now evaluating new software modules alongside ERP systems. How should companies think about adding new tools without overwhelming their teams?

Catherine Wendt (32:19)
My first answer to that is in a measured way. You get excited about two or three things and you're committed to doing them. Yes, great. Phase it. Phase it over time. We're gonna share the vision. These are the three things I am very excited about, and within the next nine to twelve months, we're going to work on these. We're gonna start with this. Here's why that's helpful. We're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. Let them get excited about it with you. That'll be helpful.

And some won't, they're gonna roll their eyes and say, Who's gonna do all this work? But many will be excited, lay that vision out and be thoughtful. So these tools you're excited about. Do they integrate with existing tools? Do they augment what you have? are they going to create a complete disconnect for what you've already got? And now someone's gonna have to be doing duplicate entry.

really considering the tools in the first place, but then when you have selected and you're ready to do it in a measured way. If you're in the middle of your busy season, that's not a good time to expect good cooperation to roll out a new tool. So be thoughtful about when. If you've got a major change going on, like a generational shift or something, or your company's being purchased or you're selling or something, that that's not the time to make a change.

That in itself is going to be stressful for everybody. So consider the surroundings, the timing, the people who might need a little bit more TLC to get on board with you on this, and who do you know could be a champion for you because they're going to be so excited. Set the vision, get them excited, don't just show up one day and say, we're going to do this. That's kind of a recipe for resistance and probably not a successful implementation.

Rishi Srivastava (34:00)
Yeah, many things to consider.

Last question, Cathy, is if a construction company listening to this podcast is considering an ERP migration in the next two years, what advice would you give them before they even start the process?

Catherine Wendt (34:14)
It's interesting when I when you mentioned this question before. back in March of this year, actually, that was my leading article for our newsletter that we put out every month. It was thinking of replacing your ERP, and I have a little picture of pros and cons up above and what that is. So it if this is where you're going, if this is what you believe needs to be next, and it may very well be the beginning of an exciting new chapter to make this kind of a change.

And you're looking at it coming up, and you've got you've got some roadway before you're gonna do it, this would be the time to get everyone. What do we love about what we do now that we want to make sure we don't lose just by changing our ERP? What are our pain points? Are they self-made? Like this is our workflow process, and that's why it's not working, or it's insufficient training, or we've had turnover in that department, and no one really knows how it's supposed to be done. So, what are those kinds of things?

And then get it from all different walks of life. You need to get it from your data entry people. You need to get it from your finance people. You need to get it from the PMs. If you've got Foreman and similar out in the field, go get their input. What would – they need? What's going well for them? What do they want? I'll I'll quit if you change this on me, kind of a thing, you know. ⁓ and then go to your estimators. They may never use the software, but go to them. This is what we're looking at doing.

Rishi Srivastava (35:31)
Yeah.

Catherine Wendt (35:39)
What are your thoughts about it? What what input could you give us on this? Just involve these people, have the conversations. This is a lot to collect over many months. And then you're ready to start doing some research. Okay. So you're gonna do that. Involve only a few key people. Not everyone gets a vote. But bring all that data that you've collected from everybody to the discovery meetings. What does it do? How does it do it?

What will this impact our people? What's gonna they're gonna be excited about? What things are gonna be very different than what they're used to, and making those choices. And then once you've selected the software, picking the right implementation partner, and then a reasonable ramp up time in order to be ready with the implementation to go live. I think those would be the most important things if you're looking at that journey. The other thing I mentioned in my article is maybe before the journey.

Rishi Srivastava (36:29)
You

Catherine Wendt (36:31)
Go look at what's not going well that's causing you to think that maybe you outgrew it or you're not able to do the things you need to do. Find out if it's maybe already in there and you didn't know. Find out if you need some training. it that's gonna be a way, way less expensive price to get a little extra training and figure out if you've already got some of these things available to you. And if it doesn't work, you're not stuck. You can still go to the new ERP. So

First evaluate where you are with a little investment. Could we make this better for us? Maybe it maybe it means we'll go out three years instead of two. Maybe it's just gonna be exactly what we solve now. Try to do that first. And if you're not happy with those results, you still can do the process of going to ERP. You rip everything out and you go to a new ERP. It is extremely painful to go back. We've done it for two clients over our 30 years with this stuff, and it was very, very painful.

And in both cases it was an extremely high price tag.

Rishi Srivastava (37:30)
Yeah, and what is the name of your article and where did you publish that?

Catherine Wendt (37:35)
This is the Syscon University is the name of our newsletter. It's out every month. we have a printed version that we mail to our clients and we have it on our website, syscon-inc.com, and it's under our newsletter. We have all of the issues back there. And we also can just email it to people if they're interested. We can add you to that email blast for the monthly newsletter. So those would be a couple different ways.

Rishi Srivastava (37:59)
And one last thing, how can people get in touch with you?

Catherine Wendt (38:02)
well they can call our office, we answer our phones live Monday through Friday, eight to five central time, and that's six three eight five nine three nine. You can go to our website syscon – inc dot com and you can contact us there. but we'd love to hear from you.

Rishi Srivastava (38:21)
Cathy I had a great conversation with you. Thank you for giving us this time.

Catherine Wendt (38:25)
well thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Enjoy.