Why Construction Projects Fail: Communication, Chaos & The $1T Problem | Chris Short (Borealis XR)

Rishi Srivastava (00:41)
Today our guest is Chris Short. Chris, welcome.

Chris Short (00:44)
Thank you.

Rishi Srivastava (00:49)
You grew up in a family construction business and started young. What did that early exposure teach you about how projects really succeed or fail on site?

Chris Short (00:58)
So one thing I kind of learned being a subcontractor and a GC, playing both roles, was that projects fail because information doesn’t move properly.

communication is probably one of the biggest things. ⁓ There’s a ton of changes on construction job sites, whether it’s a small job, huge job, information’s always changing, things always change, and trying to get that information to the right people at the right time has always been what I feel is one of the main problems, as well as people not holding up their end of the deal or notifying somebody if material’s delayed or something doesn’t quite work out right on a project. That’s one of the things I’ve kind of learned. mean, growing up in like

my father’s landscape business. was on jobs really early, like really young. And I think one summer I was at 10 years old laying sod at a new high school that was being developed for,

this town. So I was 10 years old working on this job site. We were there all weekend, you know, trying to get the job ready for kids to show up to school on Monday morning. So, I mean, like most of the issues that happen on job sites aren’t really skill problems, I don’t think. I mean, there’s is definitely lack of training and like a lack of labor, but they’re timing problems, communication problems and clarity problems that I think really affect job sites. And that’s from experience really as being like a GC, being a superintendent on these job sites.

That’s like when it boils down to. The right information doesn’t reach the right person at the right time.

Rishi Srivastava (02:15)
make complete sense. You’ve held roles across the stack, labor, supervision, PM slash, superintendent, sales slash marketing, and now founder. Which role gave you the clearest view of why construction is often behind schedule?

Chris Short (02:31)
I would say being a GC working on like high rises and some of those larger student housing projects, being a superintendent like in the field probably gave me the most perspective, right? Like I was able to relate with a lot of the subs because I came from a subcontractor background and even some of my superintendents and assistants were like, man, how do you get the subs to do the stuff that you want them to do? Because I can relate to them. But really, to answer your question, a lot of that came from being a superintendent and like being in the grind and especially student housing where, you know,

kids are moving into college, you have to have those apartments done, ready or not. They have to be done for college kids to move in. I’d say being a GC was really that’s why I became a GC was to answer my why.

Like, why do these jobs always get behind? Let me get my contractor’s license and then also be a GC and I try to solve that issue. And then that’s why I became a founder. I hit it from every angle and came up with a solution to solve these problems that some contractors, the GCs, the team members, the people deal with.

Rishi Srivastava (03:33)
There’s a lot of information on construction sites.

Chris Short (03:37)
I mean, it’s crazy, but mean, every job’s different too, every project’s, I mean, the construction industry in just America is over $1 trillion.

and you have anything from residential homes to data centers to apartment complexes to roadways. The industry is huge and everybody’s problem is going to be a little different or have a different perspective or experience. But I would say in my field, my industry, I was able to bounce around and get a lot of experience in different roles in different projects.

Rishi Srivastava (04:05)
Next section is on scale, scheduling and downstream impact. You’ve managed large crews, sometimes 80 to 100 people at once. What tends to break first as headcount scales?

Chris Short (04:18)
Well, obviously that’s communication, kind of what we talked about earlier. Communication is probably the biggest problem in construction, right? There’s tons of…

There’s language differences in construction in America. Here we have English, Spanish, some other languages, ⁓ communication levels as far as like, or even education levels, you know, whether they’re college educated, some of them have high school education, some them don’t. So there’s a lot of different unique personalities and people and backgrounds that all merge to try to get a project completed. And I think communication is the biggest one there, easier said than done. mean, like managing 80 to 100 people as like a subcontractor on one job site,

is a lot. Communication is super important even when you’re GC and you’re managing 10, 12, 15 different crews, different trades. Communication is definitely like…

keeping people abreast of the information at the right time. I mean, you can sit there and have all the meetings you want in the job trailer, but if that doesn’t reach the people in the field, like the people doing the work, the people on the boom lift, the people hanging the siding or doing the grading, it falls apart. And I think that’s why I founded Borealis, was to try to help the gaps between planning and execution.

But really, really comes down to communication. And it’s hard. hard. It’s hard. Communication is not easy when you have that many moving parts. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (05:29)
Mm-hmm.

You also don’t want to

overwhelm people with information, know, when you’re communicating.

Chris Short (05:39)
Exactly.

It’s getting the right information to the right people at the right time.

Rishi Srivastava (05:43)
Yeah.

Your family business was often the last trade on site and had schedules compressed. How should owners and finance teams think about the real cost of that compression on subs and crews?

Chris Short (05:57)
So from a GC perspective, it is what it is, right? You try to get the job done, things happen. You gotta try to get the job done. And getting it done is sometimes expensive if trades have to come in and they weren’t expecting certain things. They all have like a set, generally they have a set dollar amount, right? They put a hard bid in and they’re trying to get the job done. And as a GC, you really need to…

provide people with ample time to get the stuff done and enough work so they can be efficient. You know, not calling people over for like one and two tasks that take them half a day. It’s hard to mobilize. I don’t think some of the younger GCs, they work for the GC company, don’t quite understand that. know, things that show up is like overtime, right? Like the subcontractor, like if they have to crunch, that means people are working overtime. So now their hourly rate is time and a half. You know, like they’re trying to get stuff done quick and rushing it.

you have like lower quality work, right? So then you have to go back and redo something if it gets done too fast. There’s also like an increased safety risk that happens because people are frustrated. trying to get it done. They kind of overlook stuff. gets tired and fatigue possibly, you know, they start, you know, not thinking properly or something just slips. Something simple slips and creates more problems. And those likely to rework or, you know, not having the proper materials or forgot to order something. You know what I mean? Like there’s a lot of things that can happen.

when

you compress time. Some situations it’s good, right? Because like you’re able to focus on it and get a bunch of stuff done at one time and knock it out. But you got to have the space available for the crew to come in and do it. Putting too many people in one room or one space, for instance, isn’t productive. It’s a risk.

The compression just creates a lot of variables that, you know, are almost unnecessary. But I know you still have the deadline to get the job done. I’m trying to think of how to answer your question, but like the real cost is a lot to do with the people actually performing the work, the stress levels, the overtime costs, you know, rushing work to get the quality to.

get stuff done. So, yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (07:54)
Next section is on preventable chaos, waste, and profit leakage. Across all the projects you’ve seen, what are the most common preventable job site chaos?

Chris Short (08:06)
Yeah, the most common preventable causes of job site chaos.

I would say here like some of these jobs it would start, you know, we start with like 50 % drawings, you know what I’m saying, to like get the job moving and started and you don’t even have 100 % for a while.

So there sometimes has a tendency to be scope gaps like having a clear scope, you know That can be an issue where there’s a lot of waste, you know You’re trying to get this job done you start then you go back and redo something which is somewhat unavoidable But then you have like poor handoff between you know between trades like somebody said they had something finished or They said they would be there get this done and then you have this other trade lined up to start next week and that stuff isn’t done so like that’s where a lot of ⁓

Chaos

happens is trying to make sure you know people get the stuff done. They said they’re gonna get done And like a lot of that profit leakage. I think happens from the GC side in those scope gaps, but also as a subcontractor a lot of that profit leakage happens because one

you’re trying to show up and get the job done for the GC, but your area is not ready yet. Right. So like that’s, and then, and then you send guys over and they’re standing around or not able to be as productive or jam stuff out because their area isn’t ready yet. So, so some of that preventable chaos, you know, and which is one of the reasons why, we’re building the technology that we’re building a borealis is to try to help with that preventable chaos and to, have better communication and to help prevent this waste.

And a lot of that is, one, helping with communication, and two, understanding when things have to be done and what’s coming next. I don’t think people intentionally don’t want to get something done, but don’t think a lot of people, we all have lives, we all have other things happening in our life, but I think a lot of people don’t understand, they see what they have to do, but they don’t know what follows. And they don’t understand the impact that has on the sequence of things that happen behind them.

Rishi Srivastava (10:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there’s so many trades that coordinate in construction. It’s such a surprise that all of it eventually works out. It’s just so much complexity.

Chris Short (10:13)
everything happens by the time it’s supposed to happen, and that’s what happens in construction sites. It’s like, if you have that deadline set, it doesn’t seem like you’re gonna make it, but it always seems to come through on that date.

Rishi Srivastava (10:22)
Mmm, yeah.

Chris Short (10:22)
I wish I could pull that up on my computer here, but there’s a ton of trades. mean, you’re dealing with 40 to 60 different groups of people to try to get these projects finished. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (10:31)
Borealis XR focuses on eliminating preventable chaos. How do you personally distinguish between what’s truly unavoidable and what’s self-inflicted?

Chris Short (10:43)
How do I determine the differences between those? Self-inflicted and unavoidable. Well, there’s a lot of things in construction that are unavoidable. mean, have weather that you’re working outside, right? So weather conditions change. You have supply chain disruptions, Sometimes things are ordered overseas and that’s completely out of your control what time the ship shows up.

So there’s a lot of those things that are like unknown conditions. To me, think self-inflicted ones tend to lead to information and communication about that information.

And then delayed decisions. Sometimes you have to send it through three or four people to get the answer that you need before you can get the stuff that you need to get it done. For instance, send something to the engineer and to the architect and to get a budget approval from the change order or whatever. Those things take a while. Sometimes they don’t know the urgency. They can take some time.

But the main thing is, construction suffers from like a death of a thousand cuts.

you know, we built the Empire State Building back in like 1930 or something like that and 14-15 months and You know today we struggle and we’re like a mega structure, right? I was like one at the time the world’s tallest building and today we struggle to build regular apartments and like 18 to 24 so You know it there’s a lot there. I we had a lot more labor back then that was during the recession Depression but also like all the code enforcement now and all the regulations

Rishi Srivastava (11:58)
Good job.

Chris Short (12:08)
and things like that have really impacted construction.

Rishi Srivastava (12:10)
Back then, people were also not very distracted. Right now, there’s so much distraction. Social media, text messages, phone call, Slack, team,

Chris Short (12:20)
Yeah, there is a lot of distractions into the construction space, so we kind of have a solution in the works for that.

which I guess we can go into, we’re able to provide devices to these job sites in volume for less than $20 a month, but they don’t have the social media accounts. They’re basically restricted devices to focus on project mandatory software as well as emergency communication. people are like, even $50 a month per device, it’s like if your tradesman doesn’t waste one hour

a month on social media out of the 160 hours that are supposed to work. If it doesn’t waste one hour, you’ve paid for that device. You know what I mean? it’s like, but it’s crazy, like, like even today being a business owner or whatever.

It’s so demanding. so many different forms of communication like you just mentioned. You know, and it is, it is a lot. There’s a lot always happening all over the place, whether it’s email, text, WhatsApp, Slack. It’s just like, you know what mean? Whatever other messaging thing you use. So there is a ton of distractions and it’s easy to get to slip, you know? Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (13:29)
From a finance perspective, where does waste hide the most in construction operations?

Chris Short (13:35)
Where does waste hide the most? I mean, again, like, so like if we’re looking at it from a…

a GC perspective, would say lot of it’s scope gaps. There’s a ton of waste, right? They have a set fee, they’re getting a fee on the job. What gets a GC is not knowing the unknown variables, the contingencies that happen. So having those scope gaps is a real problem. Having to pay for something that you thought was in the bid that wasn’t, that’s coming out of your pocket.

You know, so that’s a big waste. And then, you know, of course for like subcontractors, theirs is as simple as a crew showing up and then waiting for direction, right, or showing up to the job site and their area not being ready for them to perform or, you know, materials not showing up.

So keeping people busy on having that communication to have them show up at the right time and prepare them and have a better outlook on what’s coming so they can prepare for it. I think that’s where the hidden waste comes from. I mean, there’s also lot of other waste with materials as well.

ordering the wrong material or not double checking window measurements or type of frame, like for instance, you know, like certain types of doorframe, whatever it is, whatever material it is that shows up. If you get the wrong material, then you gotta wait on a log-in time for the right material. That can be an issue. So.

Rishi Srivastava (14:53)
Yeah.

Chris Short (14:54)
I personal experience, one of my project managers ordered the wrong two semi loads of windows one time. it was cheaper for us to get it re-engineered and the architect to approve us that it was cheaper for us to reframe and make the window size larger than it was to ship back those windows and have new windows shipped.

Rishi Srivastava (15:15)
Wow,

Chris Short (15:16)
Yeah. ⁓

Rishi Srivastava (15:16)
yeah. So you are designing for the architect.

Chris Short (15:22)
Yeah, I mean, yeah,

it was pretty much we had to do a lot of modifications, but for the architect engineer, but it was it was either wait 12 weeks on on those windows or spend three weeks getting stuff fixed and then installing those windows. But that whole job was just it when I showed up, it was already a year and a half behind due to like stuff that happened during COVID and a bunch of changes and.

But anyways, that was a bad job. That was a really rough project. That’s just one of many things that was not done well on that job site.

Rishi Srivastava (15:56)
You know, people who win in life, they take every setback or every bad job as a learning lesson.

Chris Short (16:03)
Yeah. Yeah, I’m surprised I have as much hair as I do on the top of my head. There’s a lot of grays, but I’ve been on some pretty bad jobs. Yeah, so.

Rishi Srivastava (16:09)
Yeah. Good

to see you still have some smile after all those experiences.

Chris Short (16:15)
Yeah,

yeah.

I mean, you look back, I mean, it’s, guess construction is close. I wasn’t ever in the military, but I would say construction is the closest thing in civilian life as that we experienced in America is like war or conflict, right? Because you guys are, everybody’s coming together and try to conquer, get that job finished and people come together and do it. And there’s always conflict. There’s a bunch of personalities and men and egos and things like that. And you’re always like trying to,

come together and get it done. So I mean you do build some strong relationships with people when blood, sweat and tears goes into trying to get something done and it hits the date you know.

Rishi Srivastava (16:54)
Well,

actually, one thing I’ve observed is people from law enforcement or military, they tend to perform very well in construction. Yeah.

Chris Short (17:01)
Yeah,

because there’s a hierarchy, there’s tier, there’s in a way. Because you know what I mean, if that makes any sense, that’s, yeah, they do perform well. I think the construction is one of the main industries that ex-military tries to at least go into as one of their first career paths after the military.

Rishi Srivastava (17:08)
Yeah.

Chris Short (17:17)
There’s several programs out there too that help transition soldiers back to civilian life and try to put them into construction field in some capacity. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (17:17)
Mmm.

Yeah,

the next section Chris here is on data, transparency and trust on the job site. Everyone wants coordination, but not everyone wants transparency. What information should be shared across teams and where do boundaries actually make sense?

Chris Short (17:45)
So, I mean, I guess anything that really affects safety and like schedule and scope should the job sites would have access to, I feel like, as far as like data. know, anything related to those, those are pretty important. Maybe the boundaries should be drawn on like financial details, know, contract specifics and, you know, internal company strategies. But the transparency definitely needs to be there.

I feel like I’ve experienced things where like a sub will sit there and lie to you blatantly in a meeting knowing that they don’t have that material and you’re sitting there playing this whole meeting around, you know, this, this and this happening. And then you go out in the field and you talk to somebody that you’re of like, you know, that you’re close with and like, yeah, we’re not getting that for another three weeks. He was blowing smoke up here.

you’re welcome to and it’s like, okay, so now we got it. Now we just literally wasted an hour of our time, you know, trying to like work around this and they were lying, right? So I don’t feel like that’s good. And I don’t know why the person was trying to c ya in that meeting, but it’s like, you know, you deal with that all the time. People are sandbagging, we call it sandbagging, you know, like, I think it be here like, you know, or, or another thing is like, you know,

People will tell you that it’s gonna take them three to four weeks to get something done and really it’s not gonna take them a week, maybe two, but they’re trying to add that level of cushion so that they’re not getting bad nasty emails or something. So I feel like there should be better transparency about like…

how things can actually happen, you know? And I think that a lot of that comes with experience for people being in the industry for a long time. Like after you’re on a number of jobs, you know how long something should take. You can get a good feel for like looking at it and seeing that. And it also builds with trust too, right? Like, I guess you mentioned that you trust.

you need to a level of trust. You’d start to lose trust when you tell people you’re gonna get something done and you don’t, or you don’t follow through. And on those job sites, I’ve kind of learned too that you know who to trust and you know who to not trust, but once you get everybody on the same page and they trust you as well, then that does help with production and information being shared.

They can trust you that you’re gonna do what you say you’re gonna do, that you’re have certain things available to them or certain ways to work out. It does help,

Rishi Srivastava (19:55)
Yeah.

And from the back office side, you know, we run a company on construction accounts payable automation. So our users, usually accounts payable team, the CFO doesn’t want them to have access to payroll, you know, so that separation between accounts payable and payroll and back office, that’s an example of a boundary that companies are trying to keep in the back office.

Chris Short (20:18)
Yeah, that makes sense, Especially with people’s salaries. That’s always subcontractor GC.

Rishi Srivastava (20:23)
Yeah.

Chris Short (20:25)
It creates a lot of conflict when somebody has a separate deal and they’re like, why is he getting paid more than me? Like I’ve been here longer or something like that. That’s like confidential information. So that definitely back office stuff needs to remain back office. And especially with like this Davis bacon, wages and things like that, at least job sites now, making sure that people have the minimum.

There are some things that need to be.

kept back office and not transparent. Crazy. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (20:53)
Job sites include different languages, education levels, unions, and pay structures. What communication systems work in that reality and what consistently fails?

Chris Short (21:05)
So

We’re currently at Borealis building.

Solutions that help with that communication, right? That’s like our thing is to help with the infrastructure for construction So yes, there is a ton of different I we mentioned it earlier in the call there is a ton of different languages spoken in construction as well as education levels and community and Even if they say they speak the same language, there’s tons of ways that they communicate differently. We all communicate differently but I mean there’s construction you have a

Rishi Srivastava (21:10)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Short (21:31)
a wide array of personalities, right? I always told people I was like a glorified babysitter for grown-ass men with bad attitudes. That’s pretty much what I was, right? I was a babysitter for grown-ass men with bad attitudes. So, yeah. So, I mean, was a babysitter, right? And so, it kind of, like even

Rishi Srivastava (21:44)
I love devils.

Chris Short (21:52)
Fundamentally, I think construction, there has to be some changes fundamentally in construction for us to change how we communicate and get the right information to the right people at the right time. And then also unifying that not just in the field and boots on the ground, but to…

the executive teams as well as the owner as well as to the architects, engineers, anybody involved, there needs to be like a streamlined process for that. And not even streamlined, but synchronicity in that communication. So that’s kind of what here at Borealis we’re doing. And we have a good solution for that. So.

I have built a system because there really hasn’t been a great system out there that at least that I have seen that does well with that communication.

Right, I mean, I don’t, I, what was it? So I haven’t, it’s probably been 2024 was like the last like big project I did, because I’m a founder now. So I mean, I do some smaller projects help out with a few here and there, but you know, even then you’re using WhatsApp or text message or group texts. And even now I know trades use WhatsApp or groups use WhatsApp or.

text and email for all their communication type stuff. Email is understandable but you could have 15 different WhatsApp chats and 4 5 different text group chats and it’s like you get confused at which one is which. So we’ve developed a software that can kind of help with that communication and keep it in one place.

Rishi Srivastava (23:18)
So you’re using AI agent and that to make the communication long.

Chris Short (23:21)
Yeah,

use AI. It’s not forward-facing. We can have…

We’ve can deploy some stuff that has AI forward-facing, really the main, we keep it simple. So really we auto-translate messages as they’re, before there’s like, they’re sent. So for instance, in our chat, I mean, you can create different groups and message people, et cetera, the automatically, AI will automatically translate those messages to your preferred language before you receive it. And then if you want to, can see the original message in its language that was sent. If there was like something unclear.

Rishi Srivastava (23:47)
Hmm.

Chris Short (23:53)
but it automatically translates it as it’s sent as well as Then you can get more evolved in that in the future Which kind of can scare people a little bit, but like say for instance You discuss certain things that were supposed to happen like to do’s for instance mean me and you probably use certain things like this in our computers and things but can be like

You could scan that chat, for instance, and be like, oh, you mentioned today that you were going to do this this afternoon, but I don’t think, have you done it yet? Right? Or like, this is supposed to happen, don’t forget. Right? So like, you could do that kind of thing, but that could be a little overbearing, especially in the construction industry. So we don’t have those turned on unless people want, but you know, you can analyze shared information. Does that, go ahead.

Rishi Srivastava (24:37)
The next section is, yeah,

it does make sense. Yeah, it makes sense. Thank you. Safety, mental health, and human cost. If a GC or owner wanted to be proactive about safety, what leading indicators should they be watching weekly?

Chris Short (24:52)
Um, so for safety, I mean it’s tough on jobs. mean everybody wants to be safe. I guess near misses is something that is important.

I know worker fatigue is a big thing now, you know.

So I’m probably not the best person to ask about like what like leading indicators on safety. You know, you got the hurry up, you got the hurry up guys and you got the wait a minute guys in construction. And I’m making a joke, but a lot of the wait a minute guys are the safety cops. So, you know, they want to make sure everything’s good and safe. like I’m for indicators.

If you maybe take a step forward from that, I feel like if people on the job site have the time to do the stuff they need to do, you’re going to prevent a lot of…

simple safety issues off the bat because they’re gonna have time everybody almost everybody on a job site unless you’re New to the industry like very very new to the industry knows how to be safe Right, like you you’ve been through tons of different training things You’ve had people tell you what you need to do. You know that you need to put up Some protection on the leading edge, you know that you need to cover your trenches or put tape around it So if the people are given the time

to be safe, they’re gonna be safe. Nobody wants to hurt somebody, hurt themselves. That’s not something that you want. Another point is it quite answer your question, but if you’re able to give trades and people the time and not put 10 people in one room, five different trades in one room, trying to get something done and everybody’s scrambling, I feel like you’re gonna help prevent those safety issues. I mean, you are gonna have people out there that resist simple things like wearing their gloves.

when they’re cutting or they cut the tips of their fingers off so they can feel stuff you know and then they cut their finger with a razor blade you know they’re gonna have some things like that happen but like the fatal things I feel like you know people falling off the edge or not tying themselves up properly is a is a is a

It’s not that they don’t know how to do it, it’s that they weren’t maybe given the time to do it. If that makes any sense. Does that make sense? ⁓

Rishi Srivastava (26:52)
Yeah, like this.

is a schedule compression, know, like something you needed to be doing in seven days. Now you’re required to do it in three days. I mean, how are you going to be safe with that?

Chris Short (27:02)
in

Yeah, so for mental health, we had to sing virtually zero trying to get, there was like about a thousand deaths in construction. There’s over 200,000 injuries that happen in construction each year.

So we have a motto that, know, virtually zero, even trying to get reworked to virtually zero. So we have a motto that Boyalis works off of and that’s trying to achieve virtually zero. So it’s like wasted costs, injuries, deaths, all that kind of stuff. So trying to present people with the right information, try to bring those down to virtually zero. I know you mentioned some about mental health and even safety. think one thing is just like, won’t get, there’s a lot of factors that go into this. So this won’t get it to virtually zero, but you know,

Treat people like they’re humans, right? Treat a person like a person, not a number. Everybody, if everybody wants to do their part, everybody that has a life, everybody has stuff outside of work, everybody has something going on in their life. So treat people like they’re human. So if you’re gonna have bad days and good days, doesn’t mean they need to be dogged and cussed at and treated like a POS.

And I think that will help a lot with even safety and mental health and chewing somebody out, putting them in a bad mood, like having them frustrated about something because you just embarrass them in front of bunch of people. I mean, that one does create safety issues as well as disturbs their mental health.

It’s like if one person could do anything to help with this, it’s just don’t be an asshole. I remember I had this superintendent assistant of mine, he’s like, how do you get these subs to do the stuff that you want? It’s like hitting a brick wall when I try to get them to do something. was like, well, one, can relate to them. kind of know what they want. They want to come over and be productive. They have a set cost in this job. It’s two, I don’t treat them like I’m the GC running the job.

Rishi Srivastava (28:26)
Yeah.

Chris Short (28:48)
I said it’s what needs to happen needs to happen you know you can’t you right like you need to relate to them and be like hey this is what we need this is why we need it like what do need me to do to get this done like what do I need to do like so that you can make this happen like what’s what’s in your way right and then that that way you can get them to be responsive because they’re gonna tell you what’s holding them up you solve that issue build them trust and then they can take care of and then they get it done right so

Yeah, that’s, I don’t want to cuss on your thing too much, just don’t be an asshole, right? We’re all human. We’ve all got lives to live. So… Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (29:26)
Being kind is so important.

Chris Short (29:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and there was a guy that talks about the difference between being nice and being kind. Being nice is like not truthful, right? Because you’re just saying things to like not hurt somebody’s feelings, but being kind, you know, is you telling them things that benefit them, whether it’s nice or not, it’s not detrimental, right? So yeah, be kind, for sure. Good way to put it.

Rishi Srivastava (29:49)
Yeah, the last section here is on technology, AI and the field reality. You sit at the intersection of field operations and technology. Where do most construction tech products miss the mark when they try to digitize the job site?

Chris Short (30:05)
So I feel like…

I don’t want to get too much into proprietary information here, as far as my company goes. a lot of the software’s, we’re project focused as a company. We focus on the project. We care about the project. So a lot of software’s focus on company specific technology more so than projects, because with projects everybody comes together.

So if your company focus and you’re not being shared between multiple like architects, engineers, right, like you’re not, there’s no synchronicity between that. And then even some of the softwares that work for…

like the trades, they’re specific to that trade company, so they’re not really connected with the GC or with other trades that are working on the job site, if that makes any sense. Procore and things like that, that’s great. So that’s where a lot of construction tech misses the mark, as well as…

Rishi Srivastava (30:47)
Mm-hmm.

Chris Short (30:57)
It takes a long time to onboard and learn the software. There’s a lot of stuff that you personally have to work. Like, let’s not get it wrong here. We’re construction people, right? We’re not necessarily tech people or computer people. Some of them are in the higher offices. But it needs to be simple, right? It can’t take 30 to 60 days to onboard and figure out how to use the software. needs to be simple, right? It needs to be able to… So like our software, can… like can onboard and use it in less than 30

minutes, right? Not that it’s simple itself, but user function is very simple. So I feel like that’s where some of the other construction tech has missed the mark, as well as almost too many boxes to check, too much customization, too much like too many things is you got to keep it simple.

So I feel like, for instance, it shouldn’t take more time to use technology than it does to do with pen and paper. Right? Like if I got to sit there and pay for a software that I can do the same thing on pen and paper and not pay the money for the software, it’s not saving me or anybody any time more money.

Rishi Srivastava (32:01)
Yeah.

Chris Short (32:01)
So that’s one thing is too, it’s meant to, our software is meant to like save time for the users in the field as well as management. And also our immediate return on investment being that it saves them money, you know, and it’s simple to use. And it’s available because we’re project specific, it’s able to go, it’s able to be used for everything, everybody on the project.

that everybody attached to that project. that’s our goal, is to get the project done, right? And then find the next one, or have the next one. I know if that makes any sense or not.

Rishi Srivastava (32:31)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. You know,

Einstein has said simplicity is the greatest sophistication. And I truly believe that making things simple is hard. can, you know, cobble together a bunch of stuff and have a very difficult user interface. That doesn’t take much work, but making it really simple is a lot of work for the software developer.

Chris Short (32:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we’ve had tons of meetings and product, basically, yes. So we keep it very simple on our end. my main engineer is brilliant as far as on the dev side and my development engineer, not construction engineer. But.

We have created really simple, easy to use software for people in the field. So I think that’s, so there’s like a ton of things that I think the industry misses as far as construction goes. Without getting into like specific nitty gritty stuff.

as a whole it just shouldn’t take longer to do it with tech than it does with pen and paper. And if it does, then why even use the tech? And I think like Procore and stuff, I mean, and Autodesk, I mean, those are great project manager softwares. not, you know, we’re about to integrate with some of them. And, but, know.

There’s some other software out there that do specific things, but they’re not connecting all the dots. They’re just point solutions, which doesn’t help with, in my opinion, the global aspect.

Rishi Srivastava (33:51)
estimated and sold projects directly in the field. What does great estimating actually look like and how does it tie to margins and cash flow?

Chris Short (34:02)
Yeah, estimating, it’s been a while since I’ve done it on large projects, but scope gaps is a big one, you know, for project management. Scope gaps is a huge thing. Estimating, trying to find subs that’ll get the work done, subs that aren’t too busy, subs that are trusted to get the job done, right? And then even before that, like,

knowing the plans are good enough and again, scope gaps. great estimating. feel like software is actually gonna really help with this. Probably already is, but I feel like even AI will be able to help with estimating a lot.

in future. think it even is now on some scale. probably don’t have, it’s been a while since I’ve been like an estimator. Like I still do some smaller estimations, but as far as like as a large GC, wouldn’t, I do see that great estimating is one, figuring out the scope gaps and two, like even having trusted subs or subs that can get it done. And then, you you get what you pay for too. I mean, you got to make the budget work on a job, but I was on a job in 2022 where

had a lot of, I guess, C tier subs to make the budget work and that job was a complete nightmare. I wasn’t a GC, I was actually a subcontractor that one. I did about 100,000 square feet of concrete and a bunch of pavers and landscape stuff. But.

you know that job for seven weeks, one night a week, I didn’t go to sleep for 40 hours. Got there at six, I had to prep five to 10,000, it wasn’t ready, but I’d have to prep five to 10,000 square feet of concrete, get inspected that afternoon, and then my finishing crew showed up at midnight to pour, and we had to do that to get the job done on time, you know, there was just a lot of problems. you know, I guess taking numbers aside, knowing that you have,

subs that I actually can perform is very, very important. One, holding up the schedule once you do get the job, and two, making sure things happens moving on the job site. But yeah, it’s been a while since I’ve been deep in the estimating on large jobs like that.

Rishi Srivastava (36:00)
Last question, Chris, is looking ahead, where do you think AI will be genuinely useful in construction over the next two to three years? And where is it mostly hype?

Chris Short (36:11)
I mean, with AI, if even you or your listeners can think of something, it could be possible in the future. Maybe not two to three years. I do feel like some of the low-hanging fruit with AI, again, I don’t want to get too much into some of the things that we’re working on, but there’s a…

It’s most likely in the next two to three years AI is going to be to help facilitate a lot of management roles and accuracy and information and even scheduling of projects. We don’t build software to take jobs away from humans.

But I know there’s a big hype on like robots taking over and everybody’s going to have a job. That’s not going to happen. We don’t have the data, the power, or the infrastructure for that to happen anytime soon. So I think people losing their jobs from robots is a big, big hype. I do see where AI will definitely help facilitate scheduling information and getting the right people to the right information at the right time, help with training aspects, more custom

information workflows for people helping to understand where there’s gaps. Because I mean, you know, some of these GCs make two to three percent on some of these large jobs. That’s not much margin, right? So, you know, they’re going to be all we’re doing is getting tighter and tighter. I do feel like it also help with like risk and liability type stuff. That’s what we’re focusing on is kind of things I just mentioned and automating some systems, even what you do.

like is with AI is really going to be impactful for the office, you know, in the field like trying to connect those things. So that’s why I impressed with your software. So I do think like people losing their jobs in the construction industry is a big hype. It’s not going to happen.

Rishi Srivastava (37:53)
The software has definitely changed big time. The claud code and other software AI, they are so good nowadays.

Chris Short (38:02)
Yeah, like a lot of my team uses Cloud Code and we do a lot. There’s a ton of stuff and it is getting more and more, it’s getting a lot better. So I do feel like even some of these technologies that we’re building like…

Things that used to take us years can be done in months, you know, and I feel like some of the stuff that took hours in construction will take minutes. It’s not as bricks and sticks, but as in the back end type things. If that makes any sense. Yeah.

Rishi Srivastava (38:32)
Yeah. Actually,

I was listening to Elon Musk yesterday. He was saying digital human, like any computer work can be done by this bot. Then that unlocks a lot of, kind of potential in any office worker who’s doing anything on the computer. If you can do it with a bot.

Chris Short (38:51)
Yeah, I think he says, one of his fanzines is build the machine that can run the machine. Is that what you’re mentioning? Yeah. Yeah, because yeah, so I mean, that means that we’re going to have a big influx of people, possibly this generation coming into the construction space because.

Rishi Srivastava (38:57)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Chris Short (39:07)
the money’s not gonna be in the IT. Like they’re not gonna have conditions. So maybe we won’t have a labor shortage in construction in the next two to three, four five years, something like that.

Rishi Srivastava (39:11)
yeah.

Yeah, and maybe even I need to go

and find a construction job. The software jobs not going to be around for long.

Chris Short (39:24)
I

I don’t know. feel like the thing that people get confused about with AI too is that like if it’s not out there, like we’re creative people, but if it’s not already out there, AI can’t replicate it. So you still have to be creative and build something that’s not there. so I do feel like there’s still a space for IT people, but as far as paper pushing and things like that, like, I feel like dev teams are going to be able to be a lot more productive.

Rishi Srivastava (39:40)
Yeah.

Chris Short (39:51)
of an efficient smaller teams. But as far as the construction field industry goes, yeah, I’m curious to see what’s going to happen.

Rishi Srivastava (40:00)
Yeah. Chris, thank you for coming onto the show.