Build Better Builders: People, Processes & Forecasts with Jason Sain

Rishi Srivastava (00:00)
Welcome to Finance at the Job Site, the podcast where construction finance meets the field. I’m your host Rishi Sivastava, founder of Beiing Human. In each episode, I sit down with construction CFOs, controllers, owners, project managers, IT leaders, ERP consultants, and industry experts to uncover how they connect the back office with the field, choose and implement technology, manage cash flow, and drive profitable projects.

Whether you are running the numbers, leading the team, or designing the systems that keep projects moving, this is your place to learn what’s working, what’s broken, and what’s next in construction finance.

Rishi Srivastava (00:37)
Today our guest is Jason Sen from One Degree. Jason, welcome.

Jason Sain (00:42)
Hey, yeah, thanks for having me. I’m thrilled to be a part of this.

Rishi Srivastava (00:46)
I want me to. First section Jason’s on your career journey and leadership. You started out working at your father’s civil engineering firm. How did those early experiences shape your career in construction leadership?

Jason Sain (01:00)
Yeah, while everybody else was going on spring break to Panama City, I was working for my dad in the hot summers in Birmingham, Alabama on the survey crew. So ⁓ it taught me at a young age what being on time means. And I was taught that being on time means you’re early. If you’re on time, you’re late. So I was waking up early during the summers working for my father and

Rishi Srivastava (01:19)
Mmm.

Jason Sain (01:24)
had a machete in my hand that was cut in line and working for the survey crew. And it taught me discipline and what it means to be on time.

Rishi Srivastava (01:32)
Yeah, I like the point that you gotta be a little bit early to these ⁓ meetings, you know.

Over your 25 year journey, you’ve moved from project manager to EVP, COO and now founder. What’s been the most pivotal leadership lesson along the way?

Jason Sain (01:53)
what it means to build true, authentic relationships.

And in order to do that, actively listening to what the needs are of my customers, because ultimately I’m there to provide a value and just to solve their problem.

Rishi Srivastava (02:06)
Yeah, capitalism, know, customer is the boss.

At D’Angeles Diamond, you helped grow revenues by over $300 million and opened four offices. What strategies were most effective in scaling at that level?

Jason Sain (02:24)
You know, the strategies at scaling at that level, there’s certainly not one silver bullet, but I would say number one would be people having the right people. It’s easy to say, but it’s hard to do. yeah, people would be number one. Number two would be the processes, having clear, simple.

core processes or SOPs, standard operating procedures in place that allow you to scale no matter where the project was. We were building projects internationally and nationally across multiple states and having the right people and having a standardization in place that’s simple, easy for people to access and to have

know, leaders in place that can hold their people and hold themselves accountable to follow those standards. At a very high level, I would say those are the two things that stand out. People and processes.

Rishi Srivastava (03:16)
But what about technologies?

Jason Sain (03:18)
certainly, yeah. Inside of the processes, have a standard scheduling software, financial software, project management software, and ⁓ eliminating the availability for everybody just to go find and use their own scheduling software, know, setting a standard of what we defined as success.

And improving that and using it, no matter where the project was, was key to our success.

Rishi Srivastava (03:44)
Yeah. So you’ve led projects ranging from a million dollar to $250 million. How does your leadership approach change when managing smaller versus very large high stakes projects?

Jason Sain (03:57)
You know, honestly, the leadership style, I would hope that my clients and customers would say it’s the same, no matter if it’s a million dollars or $250 million. You still have to hire the right team, have a clear scope, a great design team, be able to manage your risk.

Certainly the complexity of the project will have an effect on it. But it really all comes down to hiring the right people, having clear processes in place, having clear scopes of work. And really developing a team, architect, owner, subcontractors, all have the same goal in mind.

To be honest with you, some of the most complicated projects I’ve done have been under $10 million. Sometimes much simpler to go build a $100 million ground up building than an interior renovation of an existing hospital or something.

Rishi Srivastava (04:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, mean, complexity of something already pre-built and trying to edit it, you know.

Jason Sain (04:57)
and certainly when it’s occupied.

Rishi Srivastava (04:59)
yeah yeah

Jason Sain (05:00)
So I try to approach the projects with the same formula, no matter what size it is. But also every project is a snowflake. Every project is unique, but there ⁓ is a winning recipe, no matter what size job it is.

Rishi Srivastava (05:15)
Yeah, yeah. How do you find the recipe?

Jason Sain (05:17)
through a lot of mistakes. Through a lot of mistakes and having great people, people much better than me around me. So I can shore up my weaknesses is how I’ve done it.

Rishi Srivastava (05:20)
Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah.

So one contextual thing is how do you learn from other people’s mistakes? You don’t have a lot of time in your life to make all the possible mistakes, right?

Jason Sain (05:42)
Yeah, my answer to that is once you can build really great relationships with people,

Rishi Srivastava (05:51)
You

Jason Sain (05:52)
and you trust the person on the other side of you, one person’s mistake becomes my opportunity to learn. I’ve had some incredible mentors in my career and a couple of those mentors will share their mistakes with me because they don’t want me to make them. Right. But I’ve got to have a great relationship in place with those people. Most people don’t want to share their screw ups. Right.

Rishi Srivastava (06:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, right, It’s embarrassing.

Jason Sain (06:17)
It is embarrassing unless you’re really fighting for the people or for someone else so they don’t make them. It doesn’t take too long in construction. You’re going to make a lot of mistakes. It’s normally the people who are honest about them and are vulnerable about them, where they learn from them quicker. I have found people will share what not to do.

Rishi Srivastava (06:38)
Yeah, Honesty and vulnerability. Next question is, what did being recognized in the 40 under 40 list mean for you, both personally and professionally?

Jason Sain (06:50)
Gosh, you know, honestly, was an award that our marketing team submitted. I didn’t even feel like I had to do anything to win it. I mean, was fun. It was a privilege. But…

didn’t feel like I had done anything extraordinary to deserve it.

And I had had a successful career up to that point, but it wasn’t something that I had always aspired to want to win. It was really quite a shock. But to be honest with you, that was almost 10 years ago. I’ve aged quite a bit since then, but I was shocked and thrilled and surprised.

Rishi Srivastava (07:34)
Yeah, now when you think about those that moment when you got to know that you are one of the 40 under 40s What do you think about him?

Jason Sain (07:42)
Well, I’m like, are they sure that they picked the right guy? You know, the criteria must not have been that hard back then is probably what goes through my head.

Rishi Srivastava (07:54)
Hmm, I like the humility, know. Construction is a very complicated business, you know. If you get arrogant people in there who think that they know everything, we’re not going to be in good companies.

Jason Sain (07:59)
Very complicated.

No, not at all.

Rishi Srivastava (08:09)
So next section here, Jason, is on construction, finance, technology, and operations. As VP at Haraway, you were the final sign off on monthly cost reports. What financial reporting practices do you think most firms get wrong?

Jason Sain (08:25)
You know, in construction, the job cost report and the financials starts with the estimate. It starts in the estimating department, right? So getting consistent cost codes, making sure that the job is estimated with the right cost codes and that that rolls over to your operations or you’re, know, doing ERP software that rolls over to oftentimes your operations, your project management software. So it’s

It has to be what I call rolled over from the estimating to the operations department correctly. That’s step one. But so if that’s being done, just teaching and educating project managers and sometimes the accounting department on how to do an accurate forecast and then being consistent with that.

One of the tools that I have developed is called an accounting and operations calendar, which communicates when do the pay apps have to be done, when do change orders have to be done, when does the financial forecast have to be done. So creating consistency where people are doing forecast really 12 times a year, once a month. The more reliable data that I have, the more reliable my promise is.

Rishi Srivastava (09:33)
Yeah. No, forecasting is very hard. know, when I think about forecasting anything, you know, I just like to write some numbers sometimes like, hey, my first forecast, I’m going to get two new customers next month. Month after that, new, just two all the way to the next 12 months. That’s my forecast, you know? So sometimes, I mean, that’s how I’m doing. And I’m thinking a lot times it’s very tough to like think

about forecasting.

Jason Sain (09:59)
You know, I’m currently leading and teaching, you know, subcontractors and general contractors, and this is a topic that comes up all the time. The best example I can give is we expect others to forecast very well. If you ever watch the weather, they provide a weather forecast, right? Very rarely do they provide a weather report.

Rishi Srivastava (10:16)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (10:22)
Do know when they provide a weather report?

Rishi Srivastava (10:25)
I don’t.

Jason Sain (10:26)
only when there’s a disaster.

Rishi Srivastava (10:27)
Mmm, after the fact.

Jason Sain (10:28)
report

after the fact, right? When there’s a hurricane or tornado, that’s when they give a report. But, you know, their job is to give a weather forecast to communicate to you and anticipate, you need an umbrella? Do you need boots? Do you need a sweater? So, and ⁓ when they’re off on their forecast, people tend to blame the person that communicated the message.

Rishi Srivastava (10:50)
sure they do.

Jason Sain (10:51)
So the project manager and the CFO have the same role as a weather forecast, right? They’re supposed to accurately forecast with all kinds of resources and technology to do that.

Rishi Srivastava (11:01)
Yeah, yeah, forecasting well. There’s so much uncertainty in the market, know, nowadays, especially there’s so much going on in geopolitically. I mean, how do you forecast anything reliably?

Jason Sain (11:13)
⁓ you have to rely on historical data is a, is a big component of accurately forecasting and you have to have good historical data. I can tell you that when you book a airline ticket on your phone through Delta, to fly from here to California, they are relying on historical data on how long it has taken them in the past.

but they’ve got labor, they have material, they have equipment, they have all the issues that construction has and anticipating when you’re going to take off, when you’re going to land. But that’s an industry that I think has forecasting down fairly well. I can go on my phone and I can tell you what time to pick me up at the airport to the minute.

Rishi Srivastava (11:51)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (11:55)
as far as the forecast is concerned. Now whether or not they deliver on that is a different story.

Rishi Srivastava (11:59)
Yeah, good point. Yeah, the airlines, you know, we tend to think that these, they’re kind of always late. And that’s how I think about most of the time they’re on time, you know.

So you’ve implemented ERP, Procore SOPs, and analytics systems. Where do you see the biggest gap in construction companies’ ability to get reliable data?

Jason Sain (12:22)
Let’s see here, the biggest gap. would say the biggest gap in it is, look, if the company doesn’t have consistent processes, consistent SOPs on how they estimate, on how they job cost. Look, there’s a lot of companies that don’t even job cost accurately, how they schedule work. In the construction industry, you know,

companies and people have different definitions for certain terms. So a company really has to define and make clear how they define

certain things and to track them. For example, if you have a 12 month project and you require the job to be have an updated schedule every two weeks, right? Well, that’s 24 schedules, right? Well, so which one are you measuring from?

And if you have 24 different schedules and you want to track how well you drive the building in, right? Well, you have to have an activity in that schedule that communicates when you drive the building in. some companies believe the building is dried in when the temporary roof goes on. Some jurisdictions define the building is dried in.

when the windows are installed. So how does each company define these specific data points that they want to measure? And then does their technology and do their people actually use that in their day to day? You have to have consistent information across your platforms that you use. Another point that I’ll make is that, you know, if everybody’s using different pieces of software,

It’s very difficult, very difficult to pinpoint the information that you want.

Rishi Srivastava (13:53)
⁓ and construction at least most companies have like a PM software and you know scheduling and estimating and accounting yeah it’s just a lot of different software

Jason Sain (13:53)
Very, very difficult.

But even inside the scheduling software, you can have four different scheduling platforms. And you can even use Microsoft Excel, right? And if every PM or superintendent is using a different way to schedule, it’s hard to collect that data and get meaningful information.

Rishi Srivastava (14:27)
Yeah, it makes so much sense. When I was doing my PhD, one thing I really liked about math was mathematicians, when they wrote something, their definitions were so clear cut. And now, like in this world of business, these definitions are so murky sometimes. Nobody knows what you’re talking about when you say, let’s say, fee-fade.

Jason Sain (14:39)
Yeah

Yep, right. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rishi Srivastava (14:54)
So the next question here is, fee fair is a recurring pain point in construction finance. What are your go-to strategies to avoid it?

Jason Sain (15:02)
look, having accurate forecast, accurate projections can reduce fee fade, right? And just to be clear, I define fee fade as any fee or gross profit on the project that is less than the estimated gross profit. So certainly there’s projects and companies that carry contingencies inside their estimates.

But fee fade is a data point that should be measured and every company has to define where it starts and ⁓ where it ends and sometimes there’s a range of an acceptable fee fade. But it’s certainly a pain point and you have to have accurate information and accurate monthly projections.

Another side of that is educating the project managers and superintendents on what their agreements say with their clients as far as there’s proceeding at risk with change orders that the owner hasn’t approved, right? Putting yourself at risk and all of a sudden you’ve authorized a vendor or a subcontractor to proceed and well that vendor or sub wants to get paid before your client pays you.

So, FeeFaid has many ways to pop up.

and managing the project per your agreement and having some wisdom and having a skill, you know, that’s vision and understanding how my decision today may affect the fee tomorrow. But at the same point, at the same time, you have to look after your owner and your client. And sometimes there are

decisions that you have to make just to keep the relationship as well.

Rishi Srivastava (16:33)
Yeah, And a little bit of loss for keeping the relationships probably OK. Sometimes? OK. You’ve been deeply involved in software adoption and process improvement. Why do you think so many construction tech rollout fails? And how can leaders prevent that?

Jason Sain (16:39)
Sometimes.

You know, what I have found in the construction industry is the company that’s rolling out new technology or new software really doesn’t have an expert in the company that is leading that initiative. You know, they’ll have somebody that leads estimating, somebody that leads the field, somebody that leads, certainly that leads accounting, business development. But in today’s construction industry,

⁓ You really, if you want to be any form of company that’s making an impact and doing a lot of work on the leading edge, you really have to have somebody that is leading technology, data analytics, software for your company. You really do because the software and technology can have an impact on everyone. Just the implementation side when they purchase,

I’m getting a lot of business on helping firms implement ERP software, Procore, Autodesk, and they’re buying this software without a real plan of how am going to implement it and train my people on it.

Rishi Srivastava (17:49)
Yeah, another speaker I heard from is you should not be skimping on training.

Jason Sain (17:54)
Right.

Rishi Srivastava (17:55)
Implementation is just small, not small, but significant piece, but training is just as important.

Jason Sain (17:56)
See ya.

Yeah, yeah, what I’m seeing is firms are purchasing software and they just expect it to start working with their people.

Rishi Srivastava (18:10)
Yeah, Right, right like a lot of times people are resistant to right? I mean a new software requires changes in the way business works right and people who are comfortable with the current way things are, you know they wouldn’t like it. And sometimes at least. ⁓ So change management management.

Jason Sain (18:10)
and it just didn’t work that way.

change. That’s right.

That’s exactly right.

to what?

Rishi Srivastava (18:34)
So let’s say a new software comes in. It’s going to require changes in the process and maybe people in some ways. So what is your approach to managing that change that’s upcoming?

Jason Sain (18:40)
Yeah.

Yeah, I believe that change is necessary. I believe change is good. As a matter of fact, even if I take myself, if I wanted to lose weight, if I wanted to change, right, I have to make a decision and make some decisions in my diet and how I exercise. so change can be good, but

can be hard and it takes discipline. But there’s a filter that I use to determine if change is necessary and it needs to positively impact our people, our projects and our customers. If the change can help improve those three things, then I normally would give it a thumbs up. ⁓

Rishi Srivastava (19:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (19:32)
But there’s gotta be a plan in place and training for it. those are the filters that I use to determine if change is necessary. And if it passes through those three filters, it’s normally a positive thing.

Rishi Srivastava (19:45)
Yeah, it to have significant impact and you have to be willing to go through the pain of the change.

Risk management has been a core part of your role. What do you see as the most underestimated financial risk in construction today?

Jason Sain (20:01)
most under understated underestimated financial risk. ⁓ The schedule.

Rishi Srivastava (20:03)
underestimated, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (20:10)
schedule. I don’t think enough people put enough emphasis on how the schedule dictates so much of the project, the culture, the safety, the quality, the expectations.

Yeah, so the schedule for sure. Updating and managing an accurate schedule. Making sure everybody understands the expectations. Just last week I was with a client where the owner thought the project started on one date. The contract said it started on another and the schedule actually said it started on another.

there were three dates of the start date, which by the way, if you don’t have a mutually agreed upon start date, guess what? Then that means you don’t have an agreed upon end date. And something so simple as that. So the schedule will have an effect on the financials. And look, if you’re a general contractor, your schedule has an effect on

Rishi Srivastava (20:55)
Yeah.

Jason Sain (21:06)
everybody’s financials, subcontractors, vendors. So I think it’s the most underestimated tool in the industry.

Rishi Srivastava (21:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, I was talking to another speaker and we went deep into wip and we were talking how much the wip report depends upon the schedule, you know.

Jason Sain (21:23)
Right?

Rishi Srivastava (21:24)
So the next section is on people, culture, and future of the industry. Your consulting firm, One Degree, is built around improving leaders, processes, and technology by one degree every day. How do you measure progress in that mission?

Jason Sain (21:40)
You know, it’s really important to me that the people are improved both at home and at work. So my mission is to enhance the lives of those in construction, both at home and at work, one degree a day. And I’ll tell you how I measure that. I just wrapped up a 12-month contract with a ⁓

Rishi Srivastava (21:55)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (21:59)
a very high performing insulation subcontractor in Nashville. I was there for 12 months and about a week and a half ago, I get an email from the ⁓ client and he shared with me that the last year was the best year he’s ever had from a career point of view that he learned so much and that he actually typed in the email.

You’re my friend and I love you. So the, was a hard year for him though, there was a lot of change. And that’s how I measure success that literally the business owner was having a hard time and having a hard time not only with business, but how to run the business and how to manage the people.

Rishi Srivastava (22:27)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (22:48)
how to manage the financials. And we made a lot of changes in 12 months. And for him to look back and say, was the best year of my 12 year career thus far, that’s how I measure success right there.

Rishi Srivastava (23:00)
Yeah, and when people love you, you know that tells you like you’re making meaningful impact. the next question is you often emphasize people first leadership. Can you share a story where putting people first led to a breakthrough result on a project?

Jason Sain (23:17)
Yeah, absolutely.

One of my goals is ⁓ to develop trust with the people that I lead first. And I think I can remember this, but trust is made up of character, chemistry, competency, and credibility.

character competency credibility but character competency what I say ⁓ credibility

Rishi Srivastava (23:36)
credibility.

Jason Sain (23:38)
And I naturally don’t have an issue with credibility and competency. I knew the drawings, I knew the specs, I knew the schedule, I knew the project. But when I first started out my career, I was there to build a job only and to get in and to get out. So the more time that I invest with the people and truly understand how I can make their job simpler.

how I explain to them why we’re building what we’re building or why we’re making the change we’re making. If I can get them bought in and truly understand the why versus the what, I have found that people will want to follow me because they want to versus they have to. So one of the best examples of that is a hospital that we built in Florida and we were having a scheduling meeting and we actually brought in with the design team and the owner

some of our trade partners, but we didn’t bring in who you would normally bring in, maybe the owner of the company or the PM. We actually brought in and requested to meet with the foreman and the people who are actually going to be installing the materials, the boots on the ground. And you would have thought it was Christmas morning, you know, for those folks.

The project was one of my most successful in my entire career because we valued their opinion, took their input. And I remember the plumber actually saying, nobody from the ownership side or the design team has ever asked my opinion. And this was a pipe fitter, right? So that’s how a great example of putting people first means a lot.

Rishi Srivastava (25:03)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (25:12)
It means a lot to me, right? If somebody asked me my opinion.

Rishi Srivastava (25:15)
Yeah, I mean, boosts on the ground. They’re important and their opinion matters a lot. You’ve launched training academies at multiple companies. How do you design programs that actually change behavior rather than becoming checkbox training

Jason Sain (25:32)
Yeah. The way I do that is if I just led a training academy on quality control for a company, constantly doing training academies on financial projections, I don’t just go in and develop it myself and just talk. I will actually grab a project manager or an APM or a superintendent.

And some of these training academies, will prepare for six to eight weeks, right? And there could be 40 to a hundred people in them, but I will actually have a co-lead that’s an employee of the company and he or she is in that actual department. And instead of me developing the academy, they will help develop it and they will help teach it. So they will stand in front of their peers and

teach it. So that really is helpful to us, not just me standing up there. It’s one of their peers. In addition, as part of those who actually have a lab where we will do mockups and everybody who’s attending, you know, we’ll actually do a live mockup and there’ll be a test and there’ll be a reward.

But the individual that’s co-leading it with me is like proctoring it. So if anybody has a question, they’ll raise their hand or they’ll ask him. So he has to be an expert in that, know, whatever we’re teaching, submittals, material procurement, financial projections, quality control. So after that training academy or that lab is done, the company now has somebody internally that’s an expert in that area.

It may sound counterproductive, but my goal is actually to consult my way out of consulting.

Rishi Srivastava (27:11)
Yeah, I’m getting the buy in from people who you’re to be teaching at least their peers is so important. want. Construction has one of the highest turnover rates. What do you believe it takes to truly retain top talent in today’s market?

Jason Sain (27:28)
Yeah, I’ll tell you what I believe firmly is that

having a people plan. People want to know that you have a plan for them. People want to know that they’re not just a number and what is your plan for me and am I making a difference here? ⁓ People want to know that. People want to know how they can improve. People want to know what they’re not so good at.

Rishi Srivastava (27:48)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (27:56)
So I would say having a people plan and having a culture in the company that listens to the boots on the ground, listens to the people. Some of the worst things you can do is ask your people how we can improve and then not do it. Right, so I would say number one is having a people plan, really diving into what’s hanging up, what gets your people hung up and then what are you doing as a leader to…

Rishi Srivastava (28:10)
Thank you.

Jason Sain (28:20)
fix it, which certainly goes into the culture of the company. Next, I would say having an attitude of continuous improvement. I think that people really enjoy working for companies that are constantly trying to make things better. I’m not necessarily saying change is always happening, but how can we improve? How can we be better than last year, better than yesterday? I think your clients demand that.

Rishi Srivastava (28:44)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Sain (28:44)
And certainly technology plays a huge part in that.

So yeah, at a high level, that’s what I would tell you.

Rishi Srivastava (28:47)
Yeah.

I mean, construction there’s also not enough inflow of young talent anymore. What do you think about that problem?

coming to construction at the same rate that the older people are leaving. So we are kind of short on human capital. How do we manage that?

Jason Sain (29:10)
You know, construction can be fun. think a lot of people, construction has a bad reputation for being hard construction, ⁓ working long hours, working weekends. especially with technology, it never stops. If a window leaks in a hospital on Sunday night, guess what? You know, the contractor is getting a phone call. So, you know,

building a company and a culture of high performers, setting the expectations. But there’s a company here in Nashville that has a culture of every sixth Friday, they call it, I think, Family Friday, the whole company’s off. I mean, the job sites are shut down. And there’s a number of superintendents that work for that company that…

They look forward to their three day weekend and it’s a normal routine. And every client that they go to work for understands that and they build their schedules with that in mind. Right, so really being intentional, really being intentional to where you’re not working 70, 80 hours a week.

Rishi Srivastava (30:14)
Yeah.

Jason Sain (30:14)
I also think, you know, look, having the right technology in place where you’re just the little things, approving time cards. mean, right, just the little things, making them simple, efficient.

reducing waste.

think that the younger generation, certainly younger than me, that’s important to them. Transparency has been a buzzword for a long time. I think that they want to know, tell me how many hours you expect me to work, how many projects I’m going to handle, how do you evaluate me and my career, what’s your career plan for me?

Rishi Srivastava (30:49)
Yeah, lots of different factors. Last question here for you, Jason, is looking ahead, what’s one cultural or technological shift you believe will redefine construction finance and leadership over the next decade?

Jason Sain (31:06)
Well…

think it is ⁓ technology and AI 100%. I think that the companies that aren’t already investing in that now are already behind, but I think understanding how technology and certainly AI can improve and reduce waste, eliminate duplication of work.

think that would be the number one answer. And coupled with your question earlier, companies that hit a certain volume of revenue are gonna need somebody dedicated to technology, software, data analytics, to just like they would a CFO, right? Just like they would a pre-construction director. And I think that clients are going to

demand that, think clients are going to want to see how can you make my project safer, the quality higher, the punch list less with the technology that the contractors are using.

Rishi Srivastava (32:01)
technology is definitely an important ingredient for future Jason. Thank you so much for your time. I enjoyed this conversation.

Jason Sain (32:09)
Yes, it was my pleasure. Thank you.

Rishi Srivastava (32:11)
Thanks for listening to Finance at the Job Site. If you found today’s conversation valuable, share it with a teammate and subscribe so you don’t miss the next episode. You can listen on Spotify or watch on YouTube. Just search Finance at the Job Site. Until next time, here’s to building smarter, faster, and more profitable projects.