Surety Secrets Every Contractor Should Know — Margie Morris, CCIFP on Bonding, Growth, ESOPs & Contractor Risk

Rishi Srivastava (00:41)
Today, our guest is Margie Morris. Margie, welcome.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (00:44)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Rishi Srivastava (00:46)
First section here is on your career and industry expertise. You’ve spent your entire career in the Surety business, from underwriting to becoming a partner at Guignard Company. What has kept you in the industry for so long, and what continues to inspire you? work today.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (01:04)
Well, yes, I have spent my entire career in the surety industry and there have been times where I thought I was going to get out of it, but then it always brought me route it back to being in construction. I love construction. my family was in construction. My husband’s family was in construction. just being around it my entire life. But every day is different. Every client is different. Every project is different and

I really, truly thrive on being that advisor for my clients, ⁓ helping them map out their plans and winning projects and just being part of their team. And I think just the diversity of it, you come in every day and it’s something new every single day. So.

Rishi Srivastava (01:36)
Okay.

Yeah, construction is such a dynamic business. Lots of risk.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (01:52)
Yes, and rewards.

Rishi Srivastava (01:54)
and rewards too.

How did your early underwriting experience at Reliance and Travelers shape the way you advise contractors today?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (02:04)
So when I worked as a company underwriter, I feel like that was so invaluable. I got my finance degree and MBA and then going to work for a surety company, they offered a training program where I learned how to underwrite, how to evaluate construction companies. I was with the best of the best from that standpoint.

they taught me how to, read the underwriting files, learn how to build relationships with the contractors and not just look at paper. You got to look beyond the paper. they offered, resources and education and exposed me to, small up and coming contractors to large national contractors, understood,

the claims process of a contractor hits the skids, you know, what happens then. So it’s almost its own MBA in itself when you get that opportunity to sit on the underwriting side and learn how to, put ⁓ an account on the books and watch it, watch it go through its, from beginning to end, with a contractor. So it was just invaluable, the amount of experience and knowledge.

that you get from around the country. Travelers is national and global and just the experience overall is just, like I said, it’s invaluable. It’s its own MBA, they call it.

Rishi Srivastava (03:30)
Yeah, actually, I have not done an MBA, but I read a book called Personal MBA. And, that helped me think like an MBA somewhat. So similar to me, you got your MBA through Travelers and Reliance.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (03:36)
There you go.

Right.

Yes, when you talk about having that opportunity to just spend that time, years of just collaborating like that, and it’s just, you see a lot.

Rishi Srivastava (04:03)
You frequently speak to construction and trade organizations as an industry expert. What topics resonate most with contractors right now?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (04:12)
I love this question because whenever I meet with my clients, I always ask them, what’s the thing, what’s keeping them up at night? And, know, the two things that constantly are in the forefront of a contractor’s mind is labor and continuity. And so both of those, can, hurt.

you if you want to grow because you need the labor force to help you grow. So you’re only you can only get the jobs that you can, have the labor to complete the projects. So labor is definitely an issue. And then continuity. a lot of these contractors that start out being just a single owner who has built a team and now is looking to, how do I transition this team?

So, and as you’ve met contractors, they’re very prideful and do have a hard time running go. And so, you know, continuity and the labor is the key.

Rishi Srivastava (05:09)
Yeah. So when you say continuity, mean selling the business to maybe a private equity or another owner? Is that what you’re thinking?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (05:15)
It could

be. as you know, when you’re a, own your own business, you look at who’s behind you and you built this legacy. do you have family in the business? Do you have people in the business? what happens to that owner? you want the company to continue. so the owner is always looking at who is going to take this over, or do you just wind it down?

and close up shop and that’s the end of it. And so they’re always looking at, everybody thinks they’re invincible when they’re in their 20s, 30s and 40s, but once they hit their 50s, they start think looking around going, uh-oh, I’m halfway through that roadway and the rear view mirror is gonna get longer and the front windshield is gonna get shorter.

Rishi Srivastava (06:03)
Wow, I love that analogy with the car, the mirrors. The next section here is on surety fundamentals and contractor readiness. What are the biggest misunderstandings contractors have about surety bonding, especially as they grow?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (06:19)
think all the questions you gave me were great today because I feel like the biggest misunderstanding as I talk to contractors is they think that getting surety credit is an arduous task and it truly isn’t. If you really understand how to do surety, then you know how to ask the right questions to the contractor, get the right information and

drag it out. And so I think, you know, the misconception of it being, like a doctor’s exam, it is not that. And, I think the other thing is how important a sound accounting department is. A lot of times a growing construction company, the last thing they want to add is overhead.

Right. And so and the accounting department in their eyes is overhead. And so, they’ll spend money on an estimator. They’ll spend money on a project manager and admin. But, the accounting department is, crucial, to a construction company, especially when it comes to surety bonding.

Rishi Srivastava (07:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, as the growth is coming, it’s very easy to see like you need more project managers, estimators, laborers on the field. But it’s very difficult to see that you also need more accountants

Margie Morris, CCIFP (07:36)
Yes, I mean, once you’re an established contractor, we call it the three C’s. if you pass the character and the capability, then it comes down to capital and you have to prove that capital through your financial reporting. And if your financial reporting isn’t there, that can kind of prohibit you from, growing, your job sizes because the surety relies on that.

financial reporting to extend that credit or expand on larger projects. so the owners have a hard time, dipping in their pocket to spend, 10, 20, $30,000 on getting a proper financial statement, but then it comes back tenfold, once they do, it is fun to watch it, as they squirm and then they finally

it came in and they do and they’re like, why didn’t I do it sooner?

Rishi Srivastava (08:27)
Yeah,

Yeah, it makes so much sense. How do you explain the real role a surety partner plays, not just in bonding capacity, but as an advisor on financial strength and risk?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (08:42)
Okay. So I always say that anybody who understands surety, can write a bond, issue a bond, they can issue a bid bond, they can issue a performance and payment bond. But that that’s like a given. That’s like getting up and brushing your teeth every day. It’s a given. It goes beyond that. It’s the maintenance of it. my role as that surety partner is I’m the go between the

contractor and the surety. My role is to make sure that I align the contractor with a surety that buys into the contractor’s business plan. So it’s really important that I understand the contractor’s business plan and I understand what they’re wanting to go after and that I do my due diligence and bring in the right surety company that’s going to buy into it.

A contractor can’t get to a surety company without going through somebody like myself. And so I have to be able to make sure that that contractor understands what the surety is looking for. ⁓ when they approve a bond to approving a program. So I have to be able to relay that information back to that contractor and just bridge the gap between

the sureties expectations and the contractors needs. And if the contractors needs are, I want to grow to a hundred million, you know, I don’t want to surprise the surety and say, well, they’re only doing 20 million and now they want to do a hundred. there has to be a plan on that. So I advise the contractor on what they need to do in order to reach their goals.

In all capacity and so I wear a lot of hats like I have to know enough about legal enough about accounting enough about banking, all the all the external partners so I can help my client. Match up to if they tell me they’re searching for a new bank, I can say well here are three or four banks that Love construction contractors,

here are three CPA firms, if you’re looking for a new CPA, that are construction oriented and are approved by the surety companies. So my job is to be able to advise my client in all those facets to ensure that, and point out the risks. If they decide they wanna pull a ton of money out of the company and it’s gonna strip the balance sheet,

I have to be able to tell them you can’t do that, or, or you have too much money in the company and, you might want to consider doing something different. So, it’s a lot of things. My clients call me for many different things. And that’s the best part about my job is that they do view me as a partner with them. Cause a lot of times these owners don’t, it’s just the single owner.

Rishi Srivastava (11:30)
Death.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (11:34)
and they’re on an island by themselves, right? And so, having that sounding board that’s not influenced internally, it’s a step back that can help them look at all the angles, and making those decisions.

Rishi Srivastava (11:48)
Yeah, and the construction owners, most of time, they got into construction to actually build things, estimate project manage risk. So it’s kind of tough to see all these angles that someone like you bring onto the table that an owner may not have.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (12:03)
Well, another thing I think is important is that, and you said it is contractors are in the business to build things, not to lose. if they get into a bad job and there’s a default or there’s like a sub goes under or, many different things, I have to help them understand their obligation to the surety if there is a default or if there is a claim of some sort.

and to keep them in good standing with the surety company.

Rishi Srivastava (12:31)
What financial or operational indicators do you look at first when evaluating whether a contractor is set up for sustainable growth?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (12:41)
Well, the first thing I look at obviously is who they are as a company, their experience, their team, who’s part of the organization. And then after that, comes down to what does the financial wherewithal look like? What is the quality and the timeliness of their financial reporting, both internally and externally?

Does their internal accounting team have, construction, CPA, understand GAAP you know, or are they a bookkeeper or are they a controller, CFO level? And, you know, so that will help them in where they want to go with the company and even the external CPA.

if you have your year end say December, but you don’t provide your year end statement until July, well, that’s a long time. And it’s like, you’re questioning both sides. Like what’s the delay? Well, we can’t get the information from the client. And then the client’s like, the CPA is not doing their job. And really the meet in the middle and it’s, you know, you know, you have this bookkeeper that doesn’t understand what, what they need to give to the CPA. So.

It really, you know, that’s the biggest thing is, you know, that can keep them from growing.

Rishi Srivastava (14:04)
How do you resolve that kind of situation where like the internal bookkeeper is saying the CPA is not doing their job and the CPA is saying that the internal bookkeeper is not doing their job?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (14:14)
They’re not fun conversations, but goes back to ⁓ communication is so critical. And so my job is to really understand how far does the contractor want to grow? What kind of bonding capacity are they looking for? And upfront, my job is to say, for this type of bonding program, here’s the path to get there. This is what you’re going to need to do, and to be able to do that.

And so it’s just a lot of communication, bringing potentially a bridge between this, because the CPA can only do so much to where they, to have an arms length relationship there. So, it might be bringing in like a fractional CFO that can kind of help that accounting department to set up proper,

Accounting systems or reports, that the surety company relies on if you’re an active contractor bidding projects all the time, the surety really only needs to see those financials maybe quarterly semi-annually and annually, but they should internally they should be looking at their financials monthly, right? They should be closing everything out monthly

Because what the contractor business owner looks at from a financial statement isn’t what we look at. We’re looking at two different things. They’re looking at bottom line and then we’re looking at balance sheet, all sorts of stuff, the work on hand. And so you’ll always hear the contractor say, I never look at my CPA statement. I just hand it over to the surety because they want it.

Rishi Srivastava (15:52)
Yeah, makes sense. The next section here is on growth, transitions, and strategic moves. You’ve helped companies expand, buy businesses, sell businesses, and transition ownership. Which of these transitions create the most pressure on bonding and why?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (16:08)
That’s a great one because I’ve been involved in all of it. All of the above. it’s not a well thought out plan and discussed with myself or the surety, I look at, it’s a constant conversation that we have with our clients. What is your continuity plan? And it’s not about how

It’s nothing more than if there’s a single owner or multiple owners, you we’re always asking the question because they’re getting older. so, and sureties base everything on relationships, and that case is, when they sell a company, if they decide to sell a company, you’re not just selling the company. Now you’ve got new owners then. And so the surety has to now decide is this owner,

just as good as a previous owner, right? Because they don’t know them. I mean, I had a situation where the contractor sold his company to a chiropractor. And the chiropractor was like, we need bonds. And it’s like, well, time out. Where’s your experience? The surety and I were looking at each other like, this isn’t gonna work. So having those conversations upfront and often,

you know, are important so you can hear where the client’s head is. And then that’s my job to help, identify what could be some good options for them. So.

Rishi Srivastava (17:36)
Actually, what is your job title?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (17:38)
Jack of all trades. I’m technically I’m a partner of my agency. However, I am an advisor, a surety advisor to my clients. I think, my title, I really can’t like put my finger on a title. just view it as, I love helping my clients and helping them through their

lifespan of their construction company. So I know what triggers a surety company and surety companies are like auditors in my opinion or the IRS. They get very nervous and they need a buffer. And so that’s my job is to make sure I’m bringing clients to them that are solid construction companies.

it’s all different sizes. So, I think that sureties don’t like to be surprised. So if all of a sudden, my client doesn’t tell me they sold their business and then the surety and I go and visit them and they say, I sold my business. We’d all be like, what? Like what happened? So, I go back to, having communication is so critical.

And that’s really my biggest job is meeting my clients often, just popping in or calling them and, learning what’s new. What are the highs and the lows? what’s going on if they have a problem project going on and it’s a bonded problem project, you know, let’s get in front of it. so, it’s just asking those those right questions.

Rishi Srivastava (19:10)
When a contractor is planning rapid growth, what common financial pitfalls do you see that could jeopardize bonding capacity?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (19:20)
Two things that I think about is, when you have a lot of projects that are coming out of the ground, right at the same time, cash flow is the biggest concern, right? Because you’re laying out and shelling out a ton of cash and that’s where you see a ton of contractor failure is that they just don’t have the cash flow to get the projects going, getting them off the ground. another

Pitfall that I see is that now they have to hire new people that doesn’t understand their core values. how they run projects, how it and now you’re putting them on your biggest projects or your you know because you you didn’t have enough people and now you’re hiring new people. Those those can be huge financial pitfalls cause you’re now paying a lot of money for somebody that you have no idea.

if they can perform or not. And so I would say those are the two biggest, the cash flow and, how because it’s easy to build up a company. But when you have to take it down, it’s very hard to unwind a company. And so, you know, so you have to plan for, hey, we’re going to do X amount. And, then you’re looking at the infrastructure. Well, how do you plan to get there? You know, what is your

What do you need? What kind of staffing are you going to need to help with this? And the best ones are when they say, we just need an admin. We have the people. We have the experience. And they’ve been with us a long time. But maybe we just need a project superintendent or an assistant of some sort. So it’s really understanding that their business plan is in alignment with what they’re targeting.

Rishi Srivastava (21:02)
What does a contractor need to have in place before even considering an ESOP or private equity arrangement?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (21:10)
A very good understanding of the pros and cons and the benefits of both is key. You don’t want to just jump in on either one and it takes a lot of time. And so do you have the right person that is going to help you gather the information to go through either process?

And so it kind of goes back to that accounting department. you’re going to have to, obviously you don’t want to tell your employees that, hey, I’m considering this or that until you have an idea. So you have to have some very good confidants that you can rely on that’s going to help you gather the information. it’s so you’re going to have to earmark the time.

Rishi Srivastava (21:53)
Mm-hmm.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (22:02)
So if you’re busy on projects and if you’re a hands-on contractor, then you’re wanting to do this, you you have to carve out the time to gather it because they both take time to go through the process. And one could be better than the other and you want the right people that are going to help walk you through both and not just chase a commission check.

and they’re out there, so.

Rishi Srivastava (22:28)
Yeah, It’s a tough decision, ESOP versus private equity.

Especially the next sections on ESOPs, private equity, and ownership changes. ESOPs and private equity deals are becoming more common in construction. From a bonding perspective, what makes an ESOP work, and where do they often fall apart?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (22:46)
So yes, both ESOPs and private equity deals are becoming more common. And before I comment on this, what’s interesting is ESOPs way back when the sureties got really weird about them and then private equity came around and then the sureties are like, we really like ESOPs over private equity. So what…

What makes an ESOP work and where do they often fall apart? I would say they work when there’s a strong management team that’s been with the company for years and maybe they can’t afford to buy the owner out because the valuation is so large that the ESOP might be the better route because they have this management team.

A new president that or that can continue the vision of the company. I think is is very important. So if you have those employees that have been with you for a long time and that could be a great way exit strategy.

And I think the biggest part is, the things where I’ve seen and I have eight or nine ESOPs in my portfolio now and probably half of them came in the last, you know, 24 months. So and I have seen an ESOP that couple ESOPs in my career and that haven’t gone well and where they haven’t gone well is that the valuation was way overvalued.

Rishi Srivastava (24:12)
So thank

Margie Morris, CCIFP (24:16)
And the way they were going to pay off the ESOP note was through this advanced revenue growth.

The company is only doing $25 million a year, and now it’s showing that they’re going to do $50 million a year. It’s like, a minute. You’re banking on that to help you pay for this ESOP, and that’s not a good situation.

I think the other thing about an ESOP is you have what’s called seller notes and lender notes. so when you look at an ESOP, you can do a hundred percent ESOP, you can do a partial ESOP and you just don’t want all that to be outside money that you’re now having to pay. You wanna have a good balance on that.

I think the highlights are is making sure it’s a realistic valuation. So it’s important to pick your team that’s going to be doing that because they get excited. The client contractors get excited when they think, I can get $30 million in my pocket. They’re going to be all about that and then not realize, OK, how am I going to pay? How is that going to work?

Rishi Srivastava (25:11)
Mm hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I know it’s sometimes when the contractors are in these businesses, idea of just thinking about being able to exit cleanly is just fascinating.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (25:37)
It really is. I would say, an inflated valuation and no team, internal management team to, help get that, paid back is going to be where it can blow up.

Rishi Srivastava (25:49)
When private equity enters the picture, how does that change the way sureties assess risk and continuity?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (25:56)
So earlier I mentioned that surety is very relationship driven. so sureties want, to have a relationship with the contractor, the owners of the business. They want a long-term relationship, for years and years to come. Private equity is more short-term. private equities come in, they’re quick to sell.

there’s a lot of financial debt, no indemnification. at that point. there’s no real relationship. And so they’re doable. I can tell you they get written and a lot of sureties do write them, but they’re on very I think what the contractor doesn’t realize on the back end that they don’t see is that the private equity may have had to put

collateral or do some things ⁓ to ensure that this is a doable deal for the surety. And so it’s more of the short term vision of the private equity. So we, the sureties always want to know, well, how long are you going to retain, this company and they’re, they are hard to write, but they are writable. And so, you know, I think it’s,

Rishi Srivastava (27:05)
Yeah,

I was saying private equity is such a different kind of business model. They’re definitely looking to make money maybe in five years. Buy the business right now and sell it in five years.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (27:16)
And most of the time, the core of that construction company is gone, from that standpoint. So, most of the time the CFO of the construction company is let go, So they just strip it down and, which is, there’s that’s just how it is. So you have to as a business owner, you have to be OK with,

Rishi Srivastava (27:16)
⁓ like-

Margie Morris, CCIFP (27:37)
I always say, if you don’t care about your people, and you have no one to give it to, then private equity is the way to go.

Rishi Srivastava (27:46)
Yeah.

What advice do you give owners who are considering succession but aren’t sure which path? ESOP sale, or internal transition?

is right for them.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (27:57)
The biggest thing for a business owner is making sure that they have trusted external advisors. I mean, their CPA, their banker, their bonding, their insurance, we’re their advisors. They hired us to provide them their surety or insurance to get them the best insurance.

banking to give them the best, so their advisors should be supportive and helping them go through, vetting out which way to go. And so I always look at again, when we talk about succession planning, you know, it’s really understanding who is part of their team. If it’s a husband and wife and they don’t have anybody to

pass it down to or they’re just, you that’s not an ESOP opportunity, right? it could be better to sell to a bigger company that does what they do, or it could be, if it’s just one person that’s that has been with them or family, they can do an internal transition. But you really have to know what the company is made up of and who their team is. And so

I would say that the owner should reach out to their different advisors, maybe bring them all in at one time or just a few of them, like the account CPA and the surety agent and just say, you know, this is what I’m thinking, you know, because a lot of CPA firms have a great, model and can run numbers and we can

Lay out different things for them to give them an idea of which which way to go. So.

Rishi Srivastava (29:41)
The external advisors

sometimes they can be very valuable.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (29:44)
the contractor I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I told you that he ⁓ he sold his company to a chiropractor and. he was older, like he was when I say older, he was like almost 80 and my conversation with him was. He had no one to pass it down to, and so I said, Why do you want to continue it? I said,

Would you rather wind this company down and leave a solid legacy? And I know that was a hard thing to say to him, but the alternative created more heartache and that company is no longer around. so it kind of just all his hard work just like blew up in a matter of weeks or months.

probably was better off just winding the company down.

Rishi Srivastava (30:30)
Actually, I’m not sure how you wind down a construction company. What would you have to do to wind down a construction company?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (30:36)
So you would want to keep your key employees engaged, probably provide an incentive plan to keep them involved. And you don’t bid new work, you just, work on, finishing the jobs that you have underway. And then you just slowly start at that point, and again, it’s really just, and making sure that

the people that are going to stay on with you are incentivized to complete the projects. And then create a bonus for them to where when it’s all said and done, there’s money there for them to have time to go look for something else at that point.

Rishi Srivastava (31:19)
Like as I’m thinking assets and equipment, they can be hard to get rid of.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (31:25)
They can. I mean, you have to look at all your lease obligations, you know, if you own the equipment versus, you know, so it, you know, when, when I say you wind down a company, it can take a year or two to wind down a company, because to, it’s methodical, it’s just about as methodical as, if you want to build a company, right? So it’s just the reverse.

Rishi Srivastava (31:45)
Yeah, yeah,

it makes sense. The last section here is on financial strength, WIP, and cash flow discipline. Bonding decisions rely heavily on financials. What are the top three financial habits of the strongest contractors you work with?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (32:02)
Okay, so one is having a CFO or controller. That’s important. Understands construction accounting and can provide timely ⁓ internal financial reporting. Those are the clients that I work with have CFOs or strong controllers in their company. They give me quarterly internals.

They give me ⁓ annual CPA review or audit and that’s what makes, from that standpoint, because you can go and get the work, right? You can go and bid the work and get the work, but you’ve got to be able to know where you are with the job. Right. And that’s where the accounting department comes into play. And, an accounting department can, they see, they see the cash in that cash out and.

Rishi Srivastava (32:39)
and ⁓

Margie Morris, CCIFP (32:49)
what’s needed. So you need someone to help manage that.

Rishi Srivastava (32:52)
Very good ones. How important is disciplined WIP reporting when it comes to bonding capacity? And what do you see contractors repeatedly getting wrong?

Margie Morris, CCIFP (33:01)
Well, accurate. WIP reporting is critical and not just accurate, but that it doesn’t look like the stock market. So if you have a job that’s doing like this all along the way, you know, then there’s something going on, right? Like you don’t know what it is, but you have to, that I view the WIP as I look at it this way. The WIP is your report card.

Rishi Srivastava (33:14)
Mm-hmm.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (33:27)
to the surety company. It shows your open and closed jobs. So it’s gonna show the jobs when they start and then it’s gonna show the job on the close with when they finish. And if you can show projects that are constantly closing out close to their budget and your profit margins are pretty steady, no job is perfect. So you’re gonna have some bust here and there, but you don’t want those bust

could be the norm, right? I had a client who they were always adjusting their costs and their profit margins would go up and down on that same job. It’s like, what is going on? Why is this happening? so that becomes the sureties blueprint, if you want to call it, in order to extend surety credit. So if you have a contractor that does really well on projects under five million,

But then all their projects over five million, they have profit fades all the time. It gives you like, hey, you you do really well here, but you’re not really good in this area here. what’s going on? And so, you know, especially if a contractor wants to grow and they want to take on larger jobs, the WIP is going to show that they can successfully complete those jobs profitably

And if they have a loser job, to recognize it right away. I mean, you have to recognize the loss right away and talk about it right away. So the WIP is extremely important. I’m probably not touching on some other things about the WIP like underbillings and stuff like that that are really critical.

Rishi Srivastava (34:59)
Yeah.

was talking to a fractional CFO and she told me something about WIP that stuck to my mind and heart. One report to rule them all.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (35:15)
That’s true.

Rishi Srivastava (35:16)
This is my last question to you, Margie. For CFOs, controllers, or project executives listening, what’s one practice they can implement this month that would immediately make them more attractive to sureties

Margie Morris, CCIFP (35:30)
I would say to the CFO, the controllers or anybody in that seat, ensure that your WIPs tie back to your financials. Make sure the over and under billings tie to the balance sheet, make sure that the revenue cost and profit tie to the income statement. Just make sure that that whole financial package ties together and make.

comments ahead of time. if you see that because everything’s a point in time. So if you’re looking at a September quarter three financial and you’re just now giving it to the surety, well, two months have gone by already a little more than two months. So make a comment like especially if there was like a large under billing on the September, you can say here’s our September numbers.

But hey, that underbilling on that job, that’s now an overbill. We caught up on the billing in November. So just make comments at a time. Because what happens is, as soon as you hand that over, we’re going to look it over. We’re going to start asking questions. But you already know that that person in that seat already knows what’s transpired from September to now. So just add the comments.

on there. those would be the thing, the two things, making sure everything ties out and tracks properly and make comments on, the outliers or the red flags that could be discussed because they’re going to get discussed. So.

Rishi Srivastava (37:06)
Yeah, if they’re not telling you, you’re going to find it out.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (37:09)
Yeah, it’s pretty obvious like you can see it

Rishi Srivastava (37:11)
Okay.

Maa ji, thank you so much for being on the show. I enjoyed this conversation.

Margie Morris, CCIFP (37:16)
Thank you for having me. Have a good day.

Rishi Srivastava (37:18)
Thanks